1 minute ago, spearmint_flyer said:

I can tell you that some of the snails pace in improving the core sim, takes away from my fun, for sure. The lack of addressing bugs in both 2020 and 2024, has taken away from my fun. 

While I agree, more simmers by using these marketing platforms is good for the hobby, I also slightly am deflated because it just seems from the top they have a better strategy to find new marketing deals then ensuring the core sim issues (that affect those new users too) are more laid back in approach. 

Hello @spearmint_flyer,

Sim Update 4 is tentatively scheduled to launch next week (note: that's a target, not a promise). The dev team has been working incredibly hard to polish SU4 and release it in a great state. I'm still working on proofreading the final SU4 release notes, but there are easily hundreds -- and possibly even thousands -- of bug fixes and other sim improvements coming in SU4. These are not the type of flashy updates that lend themselves to a high-profile YouTube trailer, news release, or social media post, but they're absolutely the type of fixes and improvements that are appreciated by core simmers such as yourself. If you haven't already read through the beta release notes from each of the pre-release test builds from the ongoing beta, spend some time to do so now for a preview of what's coming soon in SU4. 

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/c/su4/su3-news/390

Kind regards,

SeedyL, MSFS Community Manager

1 hour ago, SeedyL said:

If you haven't already read through the beta release notes from each of the pre-release test builds from the ongoing beta,

Ooof, if I can count correctly (never guaranteed), there were 17 public builds in this beta?! I was tempted to get back into the betas, but if that’s going to become a standard, I’ll continue to steer clear.

2 hours ago, rick celik said:

The way I see it, 2020 was the test bed, they realised the $$$ are in the wider audience, 2024 was sold as initally being for the hard core simmers, but now is going astray. Lets be real, there hasnt been any leaps and bounds development to the core sim for 2024, no weather, no dynamics, no handling, no inertia etc etc its all just been fixing bugs or regressions. 

Thats my take and I'm 100% allowed to belive that. Not sure why old mate a few pages back called us "weird". And yes I'm aware there are different teams working on different projects within the sim, so can the team working on the "for the flight simmer" stuff tell me where they are, because we've heard from the wider audience team, we've heard from the bug and regression fixing team, where is the core sim innovation team gone? havent heard a beep. 

I don't think that is a fair assessment.  MSFS 2024, on release, was a huge step up in flight dynamics, ground handling, more realistic terrain (did you see my  MSFS 2024 has 4000x more geometry detail than MSFS 2020 thread?), cirrus clouds, change in how light passes through clouds, free LIDO charts, 24 hour historical weather, even more avionics by Working Title, etc.  These are all features requested by the hard core flight sim community.  And did they deliver on these features for MSFS 2024? Yes, they did.

But what was the problem with the release? The bugs, the bugs, the bugs.  That's why they have spent the last year fixing the bugs, and now MSFS 2024 free flight in SU4 is pretty stable.  The performance is also quite good in SU4.

The last thing you want to do in a software project is to add new features, when the core program is extremely buggy.  Jorg and the MSFS team were right to fix all the bugs, because that is the #1 complaint about MSFS 2024 on its release.

I think after SU4, MSFS 2024 free flight is in a good enough state, and the performance is quite good, that they can start to add new features again.  After such a buggy release, you got to fix the bugs first.  And when those are fixed, then it's time to add new features. 

Having said that, I did notice some flight dynamics and ground handling improvements throughout the last year with the addition of certain configuration variables that 3rd party developers could take advantage of. So a few new features regarding flight dynamics and ground handling did creep into MSFS 2024 during the last year.

Finally, these add-ons like Red Bull Racing and Stranger Things, etc, they are done by different teams and I don't think they affect the bugginess of the core sim. So I don't really mind these add-ons, if it brings in more users to the MSFS ecosystem, provided they don't make the core sim more buggy (and I don't think they do).

 

Edited December 5, 2025Dec 5 by abrams_tank

Yeah Taog's Hangar is on the partner splash screen

Edited December 5, 2025Dec 5 by Tuskin38

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

I don't think that is a fair assessment.  MSFS 2024, on release, was a huge step up in flight dynamics, ground handling, more realistic terrain (did you see my  MSFS 2024 has 4000x more geometry detail than MSFS 2020 thread?), cirrus clouds, change in how light passes through clouds, free LIDO charts, 24 hour historical weather, even more avionics by Working Title, etc.  These are all features requested by the hard core flight sim community.  And did they deliver on these features for MSFS 2024? Yes, they did.

But what was the problem with the release? The bugs, the bugs, the bugs.  That's why they have spent the last year fixing the bugs, and now MSFS 2024 free flight in SU4 is pretty stable.  The performance is also quite good in SU4.

The last thing you want to do in a software project is to add new features, when the core program is extremely buggy.  Jorg and the MSFS team were right to fix all the bugs, because that is the #1 complaint about MSFS 2024 on its release.

I think after SU4, MSFS 2024 free flight is in a good enough state, and the performance is quite good, that they can start to add new features again.  After such a buggy release, you got to fix the bugs first.  And when those are fixed, then it's time to add new features. 

Having said that, I did notice some flight dynamics and ground handling improvements throughout the last year with the addition of certain configuration variables that 3rd party developers could take advantage of. So a few new features regarding flight dynamics and ground handling did creep into MSFS 2024 during the last year.

Finally, these add-ons like Red Bull Racing and Stranger Things, etc, they are done by different teams and I don't think they affect the bugginess of the core sim. So I don't really mind these add-ons, if it brings in more users to the MSFS ecosystem, provided they don't make the core sim more buggy (and I don't think they do).

 

Yes I do agree with some of the things you've said and like I said I dont think its a bad sim and its still my main sim, however I just feel the passion of the team that was there before the 2020 release has dwindled down. 

I say this because while we do get these "extra" updates and it is good for the ecosystem as I did mention in my previous posts, the long outstanding issues in the simulator still havent gotten much love. 

Lets hope the next big thing is the weather simulation because I feel like thats what needs to most work in the sim.  

Maybe the immediate focus needed to ship away from the serious simmers for a bit, and expand the user base to those who are willing to contribute money to keep things going. What do I mean? 

Serious simmers spend money, lots of it. They buy airports, aircraft, expensive hardware to operate them, add-ons that provide immersion such as ai atc, mods for weather, scenery packs, myriads of controllers, upgraded hardware ... the list goes on. The problem is that Microsoft/Asobo do not see a dollar from it. Why? 

Serious simmers as a general rule don't want to support the in game marketplace, they prefer to purchase from third party vendors like they always have done. It seems even half of the serious simmers on here won't even cough up the $150 to even purchase 2024. Yet with their initial and often only investment to the developers they are often the loudest wanting things constantly improved. For free of course. This is likely the reason why the plug was pulled on this franchise years ago. 

Casual simmers, or gamers as serious simmers like to call them are often more likely to generate revenue for them by using the marketplace. Of course this is a guaranteed revenue source with console users, so developing for both Xbox and PS5 is a strategic move to guarantee the titlesq longevity. These are the people who are paying the day to day operations with marketplace transactions. 

Maybe serious simmers should relaize the positive effect these casual simmers are having on their hobby, keeping the coffers full and allowing the Devs to keep bettering the sim for them, instead of demanding ten years of free updates for their measly $150.

 

1 hour ago, rick celik said:

Yes I do agree with some of the

Lets hope the next big thing is the weather simulation because I feel like thats what needs to most work in the sim.  

And correcting the stutters/audio popping along with the other bugs present since 2020…

3 minutes ago, spearmint_flyer said:

And correcting the stutters/audio popping along with the other bugs present since 2020…

I haven't had any audio popping in the SU4 beta (or before the beta, guess I was just lucky), and the stutters are nearly gone.

  

6 minutes ago, OneOfMany said:

Serious simmers as a general rule don't want to support the in game marketplace

I don't know where you got that conclusion from, I knew of a few 'serious' simmers who use the marketplace. There's also some on this very forum who use it.

 

  

6 minutes ago, OneOfMany said:

Maybe the immediate focus needed to ship away from the serious simmers for a bit, and expand the user base to those who are willing to contribute money to keep things going. What do I mean? 

It's just a side project, probably outsourced based on previous ones. It isn't taking dev time away from the core sim. Focus isn't shifting, it has always been for everyone.

Edited December 5, 2025Dec 5 by Tuskin38

7 hours ago, rick celik said:

its all just been fixing bugs or regressions.

On this point though isn't it obvious that was going to have to happen after the dreadful release last year? SU4 beta has proven beyond doubt that this Sim was released a year too early, Jorg admitted they had to fix tens of thousands of bugs post launch, the career mode was riddled with issues and that was a major selling point at the time. They had to do this otherwise it may well of sunk entirely.

I do agree with other aspects of what you're saying, we're still troubled with 'METAR Bubbles', the ATC is still poor, the AI, the LOD issues, clouds on ultra still don't compare to their greatness before the SU5 2020 Mass Graphical Degradation Update etc etc.

But on the whole they have improved physics over 2020,  there's plenty of evidence of that. It'll be interesting to see what SU5 brings to the table now that they're out of the woods with this troubled first year, SU5 should be the first update to really push the Sim on as a whole and that includes hardcore simmer "stuff".

30 minutes ago, MarcG said:

On this point though isn't it obvious that was going to have to happen after the dreadful release last year? SU4 beta has proven beyond doubt that this Sim was released a year too early, Jorg admitted they had to fix tens of thousands of bugs post launch, the career mode was riddled with issues and that was a major selling point at the time. They had to do this otherwise it may well of sunk entirely.

I do agree with other aspects of what you're saying, we're still troubled with 'METAR Bubbles', the ATC is still poor, the AI, the LOD issues, clouds on ultra still don't compare to their greatness before the SU5 2020 Mass Graphical Degradation Update etc etc.

But on the whole they have improved physics over 2020,  there's plenty of evidence of that. It'll be interesting to see what SU5 brings to the table now that they're out of the woods with this troubled first year, SU5 should be the first update to really push the Sim on as a whole and that includes hardcore simmer "stuff".

You're not wrong, it was a terrible release and we are only catching up. Definietley, I'm looking to see what SU5 brings! Fingers crossed

Somewhat unsurprisingly, the usual "negativists" are getting "heart palpitations".

9 hours ago, rick celik said:

So you think that core simmers are old white guys? Have you not seen most of the streamers on youtube who are actual pilots and are hard core simmers too... definetely not old. Neverthless, if we wanted a fun flight game that couldve been the approach from the start.

I mean its in the name right, Microsft FLIGHT SIMULATOR. Like I said, not agains the fun part of the sim, just need more to the core and I'm not talking about aircraft, I'm talking about flight and weather simulations, most important aspect if you're trying to simulate flight right?

 

...and better ATC and AI plane animations.

1 hour ago, Ricardo41 said:

Somewhat unsurprisingly, the usual "negativists" are getting "heart palpitations".

Everyone’s entitled to their opinions, if you don’t like it, stop visiting forums

15 minutes ago, rick celik said:

Everyone’s entitled to their opinions, if you don’t like it, stop visiting forums

Pfff...that's a complex one. 

1 minute ago, hansb57 said:

Pfff...that's a complex one. 

Nah not really, very simple. Maybe complex to you but most will get it.