Top Gun gave us the F-18 Super Hornet.

Yes it released before that addon, but the original plan was for it launch with it before it was delayed.

If you all had the Flying Fries QUASAR you wouldn't be concerned with silly releases - you would be off buzzing the planet.  😅

dd

 

What plane will we get with the MSFS Lem Skoorb's Spaceballs 2 update?

 

 

When I joined up w/ MSFS 2020 I figured I'd fly a few default planes around for fun. Now I spend $2-300/year on add-ons and read manuals. I agree 100% w/ adding stuff like this to attract people. You never know which customers will be the next generation of customer base. 

And honestly, sometimes I have 20 minutes to fly or I lack the mental bandwidth to fly "properly" so I enjoy Isla Nublar and Hawkins, IN for a bit. The variety can be nice!

My problem isnt MSFS doing these types of things, sure its great to get through to more audience and generate money. That's great for the hobby, my gripe is that we arent getting the full on "for the hardcore simmer" stuff anymore. 

I remember these in depth great videos that dropped before 2020 was released and you can tell they were passionate about catering to the core simmers. And these videos were about the new features the innovation the passion, now the dev streams and videos they drop are about fixing bugs. 

Still my favorite sim yes, but man we need the same passion to the core sim like they used to. 

The way I see it, 2020 was the test bed, they realised the $$$ are in the wider audience, 2024 was sold as initally being for the hard core simmers, but now is going astray. Lets be real, there hasnt been any leaps and bounds development to the core sim for 2024, no weather, no dynamics, no handling, no inertia etc etc its all just been fixing bugs or regressions. 

Thats my take and I'm 100% allowed to belive that. Not sure why old mate a few pages back called us "weird". And yes I'm aware there are different teams working on different projects within the sim, so can the team working on the "for the flight simmer" stuff tell me where they are, because we've heard from the wider audience team, we've heard from the bug and regression fixing team, where is the core sim innovation team gone? havent heard a beep. 

 

13 minutes ago, rick celik said:

$$$ are in the wider audience

This applies not only to MSFS 😉- Either 'wider audience', 'higher price' or...we all know what.

Edited December 5, 2025Dec 5 by MaGer1965

Just now, rick celik said:

My problem isnt MSFS doing these types of things, sure its great to get through to more audience and generate money. That's great for the hobby, my gripe is that we arent getting the full on "for the hardcore simmer" stuff anymore. 

I remember these in depth great videos that dropped before 2020 was released and you can tell they were passionate about catering to the core simmers. And these videos were about the new features the innovation the passion, now the dev streams and videos they drop are about fixing bugs. 

Still my favorite sim yes, but man we need the same passion to the core sim like they used to. 

The way I see it, 2020 was the test bed, they realised the $$$ are in the wider audience, 2024 was sold as initally being for the hard core simmers, but now is going astray. Lets be real, there hasnt been any leaps and bounds development to the core sim for 2024, no weather, no dynamics, no handling, no inertia etc etc its all just been fixing bugs or regressions. 

Thats my take and I'm 100% allowed to belive that. Not sure why old mate a few pages back called us "weird". And yes I'm aware there are different teams working on different projects within the sim, so can the team working on the "for the flight simmer" stuff tell me where they are, because we've heard from the wider audience team, we've heard from the bug and regression fixing team, where is the core sim innovation team gone? havent heard a beep. 

 

The problem may be that core simmers like old white guys are a dying breed. No problem with that because it is reality  Fun is what flight simulation needs most.

dd

16 minutes ago, rick celik said:

My problem isnt MSFS doing these types of things, sure its great to get through to more audience and generate money. That's great for the hobby, my gripe is that we arent getting the full on "for the hardcore simmer" stuff anymore. 

 

 

I think we still are.  We're getting the Embraer Praetor, which will be more in more in the depth than the Longitude, and soon TM we're getting the Avidyne IFD 550 and 440 GPS avionics, coded by WorkingTitle.  I think that's pretty hardcore 🙂

Taog's Huey being added for free is a really good thing.   Back in the day, until they got replaced by Blackhawks, the classic UH-1H used to be my "ride to work".   

18 minutes ago, Sky_Pilot071 said:

The problem may be that core simmers like old white guys are a dying breed. No problem with that because it is reality  Fun is what flight simulation needs most.

dd

So you think that core simmers are old white guys? Have you not seen most of the streamers on youtube who are actual pilots and are hard core simmers too... definetely not old. Neverthless, if we wanted a fun flight game that couldve been the approach from the start.

I mean its in the name right, Microsft FLIGHT SIMULATOR. Like I said, not agains the fun part of the sim, just need more to the core and I'm not talking about aircraft, I'm talking about flight and weather simulations, most important aspect if you're trying to simulate flight right?

 

42 minutes ago, rick celik said:

My problem isnt MSFS doing these types of things, sure its great to get through to more audience and generate money. That's great for the hobby, my gripe is that we arent getting the full on "for the hardcore simmer" stuff anymore. 

And who is this "hardcore simmer" you speak of? As far as I see it, it's the folks that don't even want a flight simulator... they want an Airbus/Boeing/follow-the-magenta-line simulator. Most have never flown a real aircraft, but they will complain for days on end about how "unrealistic" MSFS is, especially for anything that involves their precious autopilot not following the magenta line properly.

43 minutes ago, rick celik said:

Lets be real, there hasnt been any leaps and bounds development to the core sim for 2024, no weather, no dynamics, no handling, no inertia etc etc its all just been fixing bugs or regressions.

Have you paid any attention to the SU4 development? It's hitting every one of those areas you mentioned. For instance, "inertia", beta update 1.6.3.0:

Quote

• Integrated full inertia tensor support, MOI recalculation fixes for aircraft weight changes, and rotational dynamics fix.
• Added support for a full inertia tensor used in aircraft rotation modeling via the new “empty_inertia_tensor” parameter in the [WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE] section of flight_model.cfg file (see SDK for details).

Those additions aren't going to be utilized day one, and plenty of devs are stubborn and will never utilize them, but it's an addition that focuses on the core of MSFS: flight!

And what about the Red Bull Air Racing update coming next week? Is getting Red Bull pilot feedback and following the exact racing rules not "hardcore" enough? Personally, I'd say flying at that level of precision takes more skill than learning a multitude of systems just so you can follow a magenta line, but I realize there are plenty of "hardcore" folks that view that addition as "just a game" because they treat the sim more like their dream airline job instead of a simulator of all different kinds of flight.

My apologies if you're not one of the magenta-line-followers that I'm stereotyping, but they seem to be the loudest "hardcore" group that only seems to pay attention to systems, failures, they never utilize, what clouds look like because they have nothing else to do while autopilot does its thing, flying through weather they shouldn't be flying through, and the landing flare.

I personally think MSFS 2024 is still on the right track. It provides the most import and the hardest core of simulation: the living world. I'm for one very happy with its live and dynamic weather. Default aircraft are not perfect, but avionics in general are in great shape. 

As long as 2024 enables 3rd party developers to make "study level" / serious airplanes I'm happy. I recently bought BlackSquare Bonanza and was amazed by its all around quality. 

With 2024, I have never felt my sim flights are so close to my flights IRL. I want to thank Microsoft to bring us such a technology wonder and flight simmers wet dream to reality.   

45 minutes ago, Sky_Pilot071 said:

The problem may be that core simmers like old white guys are a dying breed. No problem with that because it is reality  Fun is what flight simulation needs most.

dd

I'm a millennial latino, been simming  since 2002, I am also the person who posted the comment @SeedyL elaborately responded to on the forums. I am also a fan of Stranger Things.  I can tell you that some of the snails pace in improving the core sim, takes away from my fun, for sure. The lack of addressing bugs in both 2020 and 2024, has taken away from my fun. 

While I agree, more simmers by using these marketing platforms is good for the hobby, I also slightly am deflated because it just seems from the top they have a better strategy to find new marketing deals then ensuring the core sim issues (that affect those new users too) are more laid back in approach. 

Edited December 5, 2025Dec 5 by spearmint_flyer

15 minutes ago, Funky D said:

one of the magenta-line-followers

Funny: When I was much younger, three decades ago, I was one of those. 

Wisdom of age taught me to have fun in MSFS. 😁

(Yup, I'm an old white boomer - not grumpy, not greedy and for sure not whining. Phew! And I still can read quite tiny blahblah)

Edited December 5, 2025Dec 5 by MaGer1965

50 minutes ago, rick celik said:

 The way I see it, 2020 was the test bed, they realised the $$$ are in the wider audience, 2024 was sold as initally being for the hard core simmers, but now is going astray. Lets be real, there hasnt been any leaps and bounds development to the core sim for 2024, no weather, no dynamics, no handling, no inertia etc etc its all just been fixing bugs or regressions. 

 

That's a broad sweeping statement and not entirely fair. It's certainly fair to say 2024 didn't advance the ball as much on weather from 2020.. but when it comes to both flight and ground dynamics, inertia modelling, etc it certainly has. That's one of the main reasons I tolerated the initial state of MSFS 2024. Also, aircraft devs need to start taking advantage of these new capabilities and we are now seeing that realized in native 2024 aircraft more and more (be they GA or airliner).

And apart from that, all the continued focus on default high fidelity avionics from WT, an in-depth flight planner, completely re-writte environmental lighting engine that's more realistic than 2020, improvements to helis and glider simulation, 24hr historic weather, etc etc all tell me that core simulation certainly hasn't lost focus. And the core Asobo team lead by Seb, Petrovich, the WT folks are all focusing on what they should be focusing on.

The addition of these extra "non core" stuff, especially when it's done by 3rd party devs doesn't at all take away from what they have done for the core sim. It's not a either-or situation here.

Finally, the other thing I feel that can make it seem like nothing has advanced much recently is due to the initial release state and all the bugs. The core team has had to focus on fixing all the issues thru SU1-SU4 this past year, so they haven't been able to focus on improvements to weather, ATC, AI as much. Hopefully after SU4 and in 2026 they can.