1 hour ago, Daytona125 said:

THANKS for the honesty! I'm SO tired of buying planes because I believe "unbiased" reviews from fellow simmers or youtubers telling me these planes are the best things since sliced bread.

Why don't you rent it for yourself and try. Then make your own decision for yourself instead of listening to others. I personally enjoy flying the plane. No one has commented on how well the plane flies and performs.

8 hours ago, Bigmack said:

I personally enjoy flying the plane. No one has commented on how well the plane flies and performs.

I did:

I would love to see some screenshots of these "second rate textures", because so far I have not noticed anything awful in any of the screenshots or videos that I have seen. I remember some people getting worked up over the "rubbish" VC textures in the P3D version of the PMDG 777, at the same time that I was flying the plane and wondering what the hell they were talking about.

Having said that, I am the first person to criticise the use of low resolution textures anywhere in a flight simulator, so I am quite prepared to be proved wrong!

13 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

I would love to see some screenshots of these "second rate textures", because so far I have not noticed anything awful in any of the screenshots or videos that I have seen. I remember some people getting worked up over the "rubbish" VC textures in the P3D version of the PMDG 777, at the same time that I was flying the plane and wondering what the hell they were talking about.

Having said that, I am the first person to criticise the use of low resolution textures anywhere in a flight simulator, so I am quite prepared to be proved wrong!

The textures look good on my end also. Not sure what's all the bad textures complaints are about. I'm no expert but what determines bad textures by people here. I would like to see what their talking about.

10 hours ago, Bigmack said:

Why don't you rent it for yourself and try. Then make your own decision for yourself instead of listening to others.

The rental idea is an interesting one, but it has it's limits, time being the biggest. And it's not a matter of just "listening to others". Over the years, most knowledgeable people learn how to read reviews/opinions and filter the highs and lows. In a forum like this, we also get a feeling for posters who's tastes and use models are similar to our own - as well as those that are not. There's value in that. It's not a matter of blindly adhering to others' thoughts, it's taking in available information and considering it.

That's what this group is for, after all.

Scott

26 minutes ago, tttocs said:

The rental idea is an interesting one, but it has it's limits, time being the biggest. And it's not a matter of just "listening to others". Over the years, most knowledgeable people learn how to read reviews/opinions and filter the highs and lows. In a forum like this, we also get a feeling for posters who's tastes and use models are similar to our own - as well as those that are not. There's value in that. It's not a matter of blindly adhering to others' thoughts, it's taking in available information and considering it.

That's what this group is for, after all.

Scott

That being said, and I totally agree with you, there were times when I did buy planes based on the review, opinion of highly regarded, trusted youtube pilots only to be disappointed. I also get that my personal opinion might be different than someone else's and that's fine too. And a lot of planes I do buy are not offered in the market place therefore there is no option to rent it(not in this case of course), and yes, time constraints for the rental for me is an issue.

I watch a lot of MSFS streamers, but I don't directly listen to them as much as I'm just watching their experience with the addon. Of course I'm watching multiple ones and looking for common things. Their actual opinion can be useful, but that's not the primary thing. I'm really just watching the addon itself.

I don't own this yet, but the big problem isn't whether it is worth $17. The question I have is: is it worth my time? Not that I like to throw money away, but $17 isn't really that important. The thing is, will I fly this plane over other addons? I already have the FSR500. That's usually why I end up skipping most of these. Not that every addon needs to be Black Square level of complexity, but why buy this if I already own better addons?

22 hours ago, Tuskin38 said:

No

If you can't be bothered to provide a source for your opinion, then it's utterly worthless. I mean where have you been? You've missed all the discussion and examples of visual quality being reduced, in order to provide a better experience on consoles? Perhaps that's a fair thing. I'm not even expressing an opinion on that. But it's so darn obvious that later products are having aggressive LODs and reduced texture caps put in place, to make them playable on console. And the summary of your wisdom to the contrary is "No". 😄

15 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

Yes. This isn't the first, second or beyond time this has happened. Console people are the majority so if it's a vram issue, like it typically is on console, developers are having to reduce texture sizes. I've been making liveries for a while and have a lot of knowledge in this area.

Exactly. But don't let facts get in the way of his comprehensive opinion to the contrary!

13 hours ago, Bigmack said:

No one has commented on how well the plane flies and performs.

4 hours ago, hangar said:

I did: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/697250-msfs-expert-series-2-the-piper-m600-by-fsreborn/page/4/#findComment-5777120

I did too. I stated:-

It flies well and the sounds are excellent.

It seems Bigmack just reads what he wants to see 😉

Edited Monday at 03:53 PM2 days by JYW

17 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Still and all, for $17, I’m not gonna complain, but it could’ve been so much more…

15 hours ago, Mace said:

for that price it's a steal, normally those features are reserved for premium-price-level airplanes aren't they?

The problem is, the M600 isn't universally $17. That is with a hefty selective discount, based on MSFS version. If I had paid $17 dollars for it, I'd consign it to the hangar, have a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale, fly the FSW Legacy and get over it 😄

I don't know what the full price is in USD, but in the UK, without the Aviators Edition discount, this thing costs the GBP equivalent of $28. That's the same price as the FFX Citation X. It is also more than the excellent M500 cost me.

Think about whether you'd feel you had gotten good value if you'd paid almost 30 bucks for something as default, texturally-challenged and 'cut down' as this. 😄

Edited Monday at 04:01 PM2 days by JYW

4 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

I would love to see some screenshots of these "second rate textures", because so far I have not noticed anything awful in any of the screenshots or videos that I have seen. I remember some people getting worked up over the "rubbish" VC textures in the P3D version of the PMDG 777, at the same time that I was flying the plane and wondering what the hell they were talking about.

Having said that, I am the first person to criticise the use of low resolution textures anywhere in a flight simulator, so I am quite prepared to be proved wrong!

I’m not particularly sensitive to them, but they are definitely low res liveries - like jaggies anywhere there’s a curve.

The instrument coaming is horrendous, and the window surrounds are def flat and low res.

p.s./eta: i did go ahead and uninstall and set it to Streaming in just in case there was an issue there. also, the TBM is set to Streaming, as well.

I’m not sure I’ll be able to crank the sim today, but will try.

Okay @Christopher Low - here we go👍

M600 default walkaround view:

TBM default walkaround view:

M600 default coaming view:

TBM default coaming view:

M600 zoomed coaming view:

TBM zoomed coaming view:

M600 default side panel view:

TBM default side panel view:

Basically, the free for every edition TBM has far superior textures, and I've heard it is THE Most Popular addon flown.

So how come the TBM looks fine but the payware M600 looks awful...? Xbox can't really be the answer...

tagging @Bigmack

Edited Monday at 07:56 PM2 days by UrgentSiesta

4 hours ago, Bigmack said:

The textures look good on my end also. Not sure what's all the bad textures complaints are about. I'm no expert but what determines bad textures by people here. I would like to see what their talking about.

There are a few already posted earlier in the article, and they look the same in my end.

Visually, it’s not measuring up to the four year old M500, and certainly not in the same league as the Phenom.

36 minutes ago, JYW said:

The problem is, the M600 isn't universally $17. That is with a hefty selective discount, based on MSFS version. If I had paid $17 dollars for it, I'd consign it to the hangar, have a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale, fly the FSW Legacy and get over it 😄

I don't know what the full price is in USD, but in the UK, without the Aviators Edition discount, this thing costs the GBP equivalent of $28. That's the same price as the FFX Citation X. It is also more than the excellent M500 cost me.

Think about whether you'd feel you had gotten good value if you'd paid almost 30 bucks for something as default, texturally-challenged and 'cut down' as this. 😄

US MSRP is $25. I get the Premium Deluxe discount, so, $17 is a widely available price.

The original FSR500 was & is $35 (underpriced)

The Phenom is $40 (definitely underpriced)

But after reading all the things Raul had to say about the M600 in the FSR discord, I’ve got faith that much if it will get fixed so that this is objectively worth the $25.

Ie, it’s pretty clear the current issues are the result of the time crunch to launch during the show.

And considering the Phenom is still wet behind the ears, it’s no wonder the M600 is rough around the edges.

Again, I’m having a hard time understanding why you were so forgiving of the FSW Legacy’s launch, but are dissatisfied here…?

Both devs have good reputations for high quality addons, after all.

The only difference with the M600 is that it’s an MS product, and we’ve seen that the Expert Series has been challenged to meet the definition of that moniker. But again, Raul says he’s going to fix it and there are more features coming to the addon.

58 minutes ago, JYW said:

If you can't be bothered to provide a source for your opinion, then it's utterly worthless. I mean where have you been? You've missed all the discussion and examples of visual quality being reduced, in order to provide a better experience on consoles? Perhaps that's a fair thing. I'm not even expressing an opinion on that. But it's so darn obvious that later products are having aggressive LODs and reduced texture caps put in place, to make them playable on console. And the summary of your wisdom to the contrary is "No". 😄

Exactly. But don't let facts get in the way of his comprehensive opinion to the contrary!

55 minutes ago, JYW said:

I did too. I stated:-

It seems Bigmack just reads what he wants to see 😉

48 minutes ago, JYW said:

The problem is, the M600 isn't universally $17. That is with a hefty selective discount, based on MSFS version. If I had paid $17 dollars for it, I'd consign it to the hangar, have a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale, fly the FSW Legacy and get over it 😄

I don't know what the full price is in USD, but in the UK, without the Aviators Edition discount, this thing costs the GBP equivalent of $28. That's the same price as the FFX Citation X. It is also more than the excellent M500 cost me.

Think about whether you'd feel you had gotten good value if you'd paid almost 30 bucks for something as default, texturally-challenged and 'cut down' as this. 😄

Enough with the triple posting, you can get your point across in one post! Take deep breathes and count to 10 or something after getting so worked up! The habitual triple posting crazy. Sheesh!💡

Edited Monday at 05:00 PM2 days by blueshark747

35 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Again, I’m having a hard time understanding why you were so forgiving of the FSW Legacy’s launch, but are dissatisfied here…?

The Legacy was released as a beta, it was in a much more presentable state than this one and there was a flood of updates in a very short time. Totally different. From what I see in Discord, the M500 will also get updates and I'm sure the bugs widely reported in all of the forums will be addressed. I have no faith that the low Res textures will be though as that would make it unusable to console users who are priority number one these days.