6 hours ago, STK said:

We need a lot more operational detail rather than numerous one-liner "soundbites" akin to the "in a world...." movie trailers.

1. IFR, VFR, both, other options (VFR On Top, Special VFR, etc etc?)

2. AI integration: Does this work with packages like FSLTL live traffic, default MSFS live traffic, JustFlight, AIG injected traffic? Do you use your own injector? If so, what's the source?

   1. Will I be given traffic alerts (as well as AI pilots)?

3. FAA vs ICAO phraseology differences? JFK is infamous for their controllers not using formalized language (either FAA or ICAO approved) thus leading to a lot of problems with pilots trying to understand casual instructions in their non native language.

4. Aircraft types. Most here use modern jet airliners on scheduled routings. What about our light sport pilots? What about helicopter operations? Do you support proper helo phraseology such as "...at your own risk"?

5. Weather implementation: Is your ATC product aware of weather (live weather and/or user preset weather)? Can a pilot deviate around weather? Will ATC put you in a hold due to storms over an airfield or advise of storm fronts on the route and accommodate a different routing?

6. Non-standard procedures: Can I request a radar assisted approach? Can ATC implement LAHSO (land and hold short operations) at an airport due to traffic?

7. Ground taxiing: Will I be accurately directed to following company traffic to the runway (for example) if I'm operating as the same airline as an AI aircraft ahead of me?

Probably more questions but these are the immediate ones come to mind until more info is provided via follow-on responses or edits to the original post. Always interested in new ATC services but this really reads with a lot of superfluous marketing speaks. Give me the facts, not just the philosophy.

Fair criticism. The original post was intentionally high-level, so let’s leave the philosophy behind and talk about what ACE actually does.

First, on the question of whether you will be properly vectored:

If ACE could not issue tactically correct vectors, there would be very little point in us talking about AMAN, DMAN or Director logic in the first place.

Vectoring is not the impressive part of the architecture. It is the baseline.

ACE is not built around a simple “pilot asks, ATC replies” model. Above the tactical controller layer, ACE has separate traffic-management systems responsible for sequencing arrivals, managing departures, balancing flow and deciding how aircraft should be integrated into the wider traffic picture.

AMAN looks at the arrival stream.

DMAN looks at departures.

Director logic sits above the tactical level and works with the traffic picture as a whole.

So the heading, speed or altitude instruction you receive is not intended to be an isolated response generated because your aircraft happened to need something at that moment. It is the tactical result of a larger sequencing and traffic-management decision.

That distinction matters.

AI Traffic Integration

FSLTL is fully supported today.

ACE also has its own traffic injection capability, so the system is not tied to a single third-party traffic package. Additional sources such as AIG or JustFlight traffic can be integrated without changing the underlying ATC architecture.

For live traffic, ACE currently uses OpenSky. When you are online, ACE retrieves the available real-world traffic picture and uses that data to construct its own virtual traffic environment.

Once inside that environment, those aircraft are not decorative traffic.

They are traffic.

ACE sees them, sequences them, separates them and manages them through the same traffic-management architecture used for the player aircraft.

And yes, the user aircraft receives traffic information as well. Traffic advisories are not reserved for AI pilots. If another aircraft becomes operationally relevant to you, ATC can call that traffic to you.

So, plainly:

FSLTL: supported.

Own injector: yes.

Live traffic source: currently OpenSky.

Traffic advisories to the user aircraft: yes.

Traffic sequencing and flow management: AMAN, DMAN and Director-level logic.

Weather and METAR Sources

ACE is weather-aware, and the user is not locked to one METAR provider.

You can choose which source ACE should use, including the simulator’s own weather environment, VATSIM METAR data or IVAO METAR data.

The selected source becomes part of ACE’s operational picture, so weather-related ATC decisions are based on the environment you have actually chosen to fly in rather than forcing everyone onto one provider.

If you are using simulator weather, ACE can work from that environment. If you want your operation aligned with VATSIM or IVAO weather data instead, you can select the corresponding source.

I will address the more specific weather scenarios you raised, such as deviations, convective weather, holding and rerouting, separately, because those deserve proper operational answers rather than another yes/no soundbite.

What AI model are you using to baseline your architecture and how will the use of your selected logic algorithms and backend frameworks impact user pricing? Can we presume that this is a subscription based model?

What about text and voice features? Does this require voice recognition and interaction, or can a user select from pre-set responses akin to the default ATC simulation in MSFS today?

What voice models are you using for audio feedback?

It sounds like you are starting the scope just as all other providers have, with IFR as the baseline, then moving into VFR operations, and I presume also with other scopes such as helicopter flights, VFR corridor support, and special use airspace. Is this an accurate roadmap?

Finally, as much as I hate those who immediate do the "this is all AI, that's AI, you're AI" screeching, I must ask, because I'm noticing a particular cadence and sentence structure utilized in your forums posts, are you supplementing any written responses with AI in any way? (It may be due to what I perceive as a marketing cadence, but I'm just curious based on your company's portfolio and topic profile).

Edited Wednesday at 01:01 AM2 days by STK

29 minutes ago, STK said:

What AI model are you using to baseline your architecture and how will the use of your selected logic algorithms and backend frameworks impact user pricing? Can we presume that this is a subscription based model?

What about text and voice features? Does this require voice recognition and interaction, or can a user select from pre-set responses akin to the default ATC simulation in MSFS today?

What voice models are you using for audio feedback?

It sounds like you are starting the scope just as all other providers have, with IFR as the baseline, then moving into VFR operations, and I presume also with other scopes such as helicopter flights, VFR corridor support, and special use airspace. Is this an accurate roadmap?

Finally, as much as I hate those who immediate do the "this is all AI, that's AI, you're AI" screeching, I must ask, because I'm noticing a particular cadence and sentence structure utilized in your forums posts, are you supplementing any written responses with AI in any way? (It may be due to what I perceive as a marketing cadence, but I'm just curious based on your company's portfolio and topic profile).

To be 100% honest, yes sometimes i'm using AI to perfect my post. Because I don't want to type or send any bad written words to this community, because I respect AVSIM a lot.

If we're talking about the LLM behind de ACE of ATCs, that I can not tell, because this fully custom AI modeled and trained by ACE Solutions. Since actually my company's real focus is on real world aviation and that information can not be shared because of signed NDAs and what not.

For the audio part, we're partnering with couple of Amazing Audio Generation software companies but it will be based on how a user wants to pay? For example. if they want the real deal, it'll cost more, but if they are ok with standard quality it will cost less.

And for the final part, actually VFR and chopper operations are already done, but I don't want to give all features in the release, because it's hard to control, hard to test and also very time consuming to fix bugs. But I can safely say, those feature will be free-of-charge.

And finally, yeah it's gonna be monthly subscription based, I can fight for this choice for days or weeks or months but believe me the money behind this thing is super demanding, requiring those server payments and everything. Ohhh not to forget, yes if you don't wanna do STT (Speech to Text) you will still have text options too.

8 hours ago, STK said:

We need a lot more operational detail rather than numerous one-liner "soundbites" akin to the "in a world...." movie trailers.

1. IFR, VFR, both, other options (VFR On Top, Special VFR, etc etc?)

2. AI integration: Does this work with packages like FSLTL live traffic, default MSFS live traffic, JustFlight, AIG injected traffic? Do you use your own injector? If so, what's the source?

   1. Will I be given traffic alerts (as well as AI pilots)?

3. FAA vs ICAO phraseology differences? JFK is infamous for their controllers not using formalized language (either FAA or ICAO approved) thus leading to a lot of problems with pilots trying to understand casual instructions in their non native language.

4. Aircraft types. Most here use modern jet airliners on scheduled routings. What about our light sport pilots? What about helicopter operations? Do you support proper helo phraseology such as "...at your own risk"?

5. Weather implementation: Is your ATC product aware of weather (live weather and/or user preset weather)? Can a pilot deviate around weather? Will ATC put you in a hold due to storms over an airfield or advise of storm fronts on the route and accommodate a different routing?

6. Non-standard procedures: Can I request a radar assisted approach? Can ATC implement LAHSO (land and hold short operations) at an airport due to traffic?

7. Ground taxiing: Will I be accurately directed to following company traffic to the runway (for example) if I'm operating as the same airline as an AI aircraft ahead of me?

Probably more questions but these are the immediate ones come to mind until more info is provided via follow-on responses or edits to the original post. Always interested in new ATC services but this really reads with a lot of superfluous marketing speaks. Give me the facts, not just the philosophy.

No, at this stage we don't need it so exclude me from the "we". I consider myself to be very lucky and privileged to have such insight and openness into the product right from the start. Can you think of any other commercial Flt sim product that has been so open during its development? The product is hardly in the Alpha stage and you're asking if it handles FSLTL live traffic, default MSFS live traffic, JustFlight, and AIG injected traffic. A bit hard to run if you haven't already crawled and walked.
Please try and keep your self entitlement in check and show a little respect.

@anilcougar I greatly appreciate the honest responses and details provided rather than marketing speak. The openness has impressed me, and there seems to be no hesitation to provide answers. It seems we have a run of the mill angry avsim user in this thread who already is insulting me, despite the fact that you seem to have no issues responding to my questions.

Thanks again for the thorough responses. I’ll watch this development with interest.

@cowpatz The initial post was full of philosophical speak and flourish without software engineering detail, but luckily the company responded with real detail on core questions. Also, as indicated they are going into beta, not “hardly in the alpha stage” as you state. You seem to be a very ill tempered and short tempered individual in the face of questions that try to dig past generic marketing statements. It seems like the developer has handled them with patience and grace luckily. It also seems they have implemented more than you know, with answers to integration questions being met with a surprising yes. I hope you have a better day. I learned a lot from the dev responding to my questions.

Interesting to see how this compares or sets itself apart from BATC and SayIntentions who have been developing their respective software for years now......

Looks great & promising !!!

Beware that AFTN and AMHS are going to be replaced by SWIM ...

Edited Wednesday at 07:23 AM1 day by jcomm

7 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Beware that AFTN and AMHS are going to be replaced by SWIM ...

I see someone else is also entangled in the paradigm shift towards Total Airport Management (TAM) concept. Fun stuff indeed. 😉

53 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Looks great & promising !!!

Beware that AFTN and AMHS are going to be replaced by SWIM ...

I know (: System Wide Information Management System! We're ready for that too!

ps: That's what I do for living tho!

Edited Wednesday at 08:17 AM1 day by anilcougar
typo

Anil,

Any thoughts/comments on the PC hardware needed by sim users to run the app(s)? I imagine you have some idea of compute power but I imagine you will exploring this in more detail as development and testing proceeds? Can you share anything on this point?

Also, I like your description of the complete ATC workflow, but am wondering about a few specific things when AI traffic control typically goes AWOL.

Will ACE be able to sequence AI traffic via holds and go-arounds?

Will ACE be able to instruct AI traffic on crossing taxiways that intersect runways?

Will ACE be able to determine priority/preference for specific runways where aircraft and runway limitations apply?

What controls are in place for users to apply certain runway configurations of their choosing?

As you move forward, if its possible to create a catalog of FAQs that we can refer to, that could be most helpful to us.

Wishing you all the best on this new journey!

Regards
Mark

Ah I see. You created a new thread👀

I'll continue to be the local skeptic here. There have been several of these LLM-marketing style posts about this product. Many claims are being made but not one single proof-of-concept video outside of a couple shots of AI aircraft taxiing around with no audio. Also, they have released another product that has many bugs and customers are not getting much support according to other posts I have seen. This is now in Beta and there is not a single video to be shown displaying actual ATC audio, etc? That might go a little further than these long-winded AI marketing posts every few weeks....IMHO...

3 hours ago, simsuper80 said:

Ah I see. You created a new thread👀

Oh, you mean it's the same drama as the Something-Very-Different-blabla? https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/697016-teaser-something-very-different-is-coming/ Here we go again ;) I hope all the best to the dev team, but we don't need another drama full of Marketing-Ai-Optimized or Marketing-Ai-generated content. Not again...

Edited Wednesday at 04:50 PM1 day by vbazillio

There are some very strange responses from people around here at times.

A beta with 10 slots, never heard such thing which again causes mental fatigue.

O dear..

Ways to Recover

• Sleep well: Try to get 7 to 8 hours of rest each night.

• Take breaks: Step away from your work every hour to rest your eyes and mind.

• Move your body: Go for a short walk or do light exercise.

• Set limits: Say no to extra tasks when your plate is full.

• Do one thing at a time: Stop multitasking to lower brain strain. [1, 2, 3, 4]

If you'd like, tell me:

• What is causing the most stress right now?

• How many hours of sleep do you get?

I can give you a better daily plan to help you recover.


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