Actually Outerra is `efficient` because of the myriad things still missing: Variable roads, traffic, rivers and streams, cityscapes, variety in autogen, aircraft, systems, 22,000 airports. That kind of thing.

 

Sadly, after what is it, seven years ? the platform has yet to find an adopter for its engine I think it's a blind alley in development. TitanIM may yet come to fruition to prove me wrong, but that seven-nine years between platform and first use means Outerra will run into its 32-bit limitations, because the market will move to 64-bit. 

 

Truly, Outerra has been marketed as the `future` of simulation for so long, it's historical. At this rate it will soon be generational. Surely the future should be here by now ?

 

What we are seeing is the developer having to increase content for their engine or else it's stagnant.

 

Not sure what you mean. Roads, rivers, cities, autogen (with many building and tree types), a variety of aircraft (not sure about the systems though) and some nicely-detailed airports are already getting in. I'll have to check again if OSM data can fully be imported as of now, but check out the screenshots in the Outerra forum and you'll see that it's not the clean world it was 2 years ago.

 

 

64-bit is in the plans, but Outerra is so efficient it's doing fine with 32-bit anyway.

 

FSX/P3D is also pretty efficient when it is used without any content, lets see how Outerra does when it has a few large airports, Ai ect and a complex aircraft addon like the 777

 

 

That is odd.

 

If in the situation I just described, static at the gate at KSFO in the QW757 and you are seeing all of your cores 'fully utilized', then that is the odd part and I'd like to see it because its anathema to what I've heard and seen.   What I described is typical because until you are moving thru terrain the non-main thread cores will typically be sitting rather idle.  Once you're moving thru terrain at a decent clip then the texture loaders will be utilized at least in part while the main thread remains pegged at 100%.  This is normal behavior and I've never heard of any other manifestation.

 

Also, there is no 'flame' here.  I just commented on the fact the 32 bit VAS limit prevents P3D from being able to grabble w/ complex add ons and while the easy way out on that one to simply avoid running complex add ons, we'll all note P3D likes to tout its compatibility w/ all sorts of content developers.

If in the situation I just described, static at the gate at KSFO in the QW757 and you are seeing all of your cores 'fully utilized', then that is the odd part and I'd like to see it because its anathema to what I've heard and seen.   What I described is typical because until you are moving thru terrain the non-main thread cores will typically be sitting rather idle.  Once you're moving thru terrain at a decent clip then the texture loaders will be utilized at least in part while the main thread remains pegged at 100%.  This is normal behavior and I've never heard of any other manifestation.

 

Also, there is no 'flame' here.  I just commented on the fact the 32 bit VAS limit prevents P3D from being able to grabble w/ complex add ons and while the easy way out on that one to simply avoid running complex add ons, we'll all note P3D likes to tout its compatibility w/ all sorts of content developers.

 

Any simulator, no matter how good it is, can be eventually brought to it's knees by loading it up with complex add ons... that's just the way computers work. 

Any simulator, no matter how good it is, can be eventually brought to it's knees by loading it up with complex add ons... that's just the way computers work. 

 

And never forget the weakest point in any system - the loose nut behind the wheel. Its the way people work.

 

 

Had an effin' and blindin' customer on only last week, moaning about the `useless carp` we'd sold him (well he might have put it slightly less fishy). 

 

By the time he gets to me it's quite apparent that the problem isn't with our system. At a tangent I asked the customer to describe the handset he was `controlling` the unit with, while he was on speaker and the team were gathered in my office. 

I think the customer might have heard the laughter from our end when he described perfectly his Sky remote control. Our product is for the marine industry  :He He:

 

While there is such a thing as stupid software, most often the problem can be tracked back to the man/machine interface.

Other problems arose because of the wishful thinking that P3D isn’t a 32-bit application. As a result, users seem to run simultaneously very complex aircraft, highly detailed airfields, extensive scenery, detailed ATC, comprehensive weather, etc, etc. All of which come from different developers are all totally uncoordinated. It’s as much of a self-inflicted wound as expecting a small car to climb a steep hill carrying the load of a 44 tonne HGV.

 

Prepar3D commercial customers know that, and work within its 32-bit limits. Such customers aren’t going to "bet their companies" on the hope a non-existent 64-bit version. Also, I suggest that until Lockheed Martin's commercial customers need 64-bit we won’t get it. Lockheed Martin mentioned the 64-bit roadmap at least 2 years ago, certainly before v2.0 was released. I suggest that Lockheed Martin could have developed a 64-bit version in that time if it wanted to..

'xactly, no need for 64 bit development when their is no commercial customer desire for such. Academic/Professional users are less prone to express a desire for 64 bits when 32 bits will do.. B) Could happen though, just not on the forum gripers schedule.

Any simulator, no matter how good it is, can be eventually brought to it's knees by loading it up with complex add ons... that's just the way computers work. 

 

 

Also, I suggest that until Lockheed Martin's commercial customers need 64-bit we won’t get it.

 

1+.   While at the same time:  http://www.prepar3d.com/developers/

 

Clearly a showcased selling point.  And yet, start using many of them and wham, OOM.  It's true, and we all know this.   Eventually they will get there, and while they're at it, full DX12 support.  Until then, we all live within the confines of the 32 bit VAS.

Little confused about this 64bit  version of P3D as its not going to be the end all as far as I know - look at X-Plane it has issues in performance also right ?

Little confused about this 64bit  version of P3D as its not going to be the end all as far as I know - look at X-Plane it has issues in performance also right ?

 

Yeah but all I really need is for there to be an extra 100 or 200+ or so MB available on top of what I usually use to get me to the gate on time.

 

al

Yes but I am talking about all sliders to the right - ai - traffic - never going to see that on 64 and the complaints will continue for sure

not going to be the end all

 

It's going to be the end all of OOM crashes primarily.  Perhaps there is more to be had w/ caching terrain in all of that vast VAS associated w/ 64-bit and my 32GB's of physical ram, or other sorts of ways to exploit the now very inexpensive physical ram which again sits on the sidelines waiting for a creative approach to access.

 

Perhaps these are truly unfounded hopes on my part, but perhaps we'll start to be able to utilize more of our untapped GPU power to do some of the mundane work of processing aircraft and VC's in particular when DirectX 12 comes along and the simulator is optimized for it.  Always my concern is the core engine as old as it is and its commitment to backwards compatibility may obviate this.   What's unfortunate is you can load PMDG T7, toggle to unobscured front scenery view, and watch your frame rate double, while at the same time watch a reasonable potent GTX Titan sit there at 29% CPU utilization unscathed by the T7's VC, auto down clocked to 821Mhz, main thread pegged at 100% and never get to use all of that processing power on the computer that is your GPU.  Probably wishful thinking but my sense is DirectX 12 may help in this regard some, that is if it's fully optimized in the simulator.

It's going to be the end all of OOM crashes primarily.  Perhaps there is more to be had w/ caching terrain in all of that vast VAS associated w/ 64-bit and my 32GB's of physical ram, or other sorts of ways to exploit the now very inexpensive physical ram which again sits on the sidelines waiting for a creative approach to access.

 

Lets hope so not looking forward to spending a ton of money again 

Little confused about this 64bit  version of P3D as its not going to be the end all as far as I know - look at X-Plane it has issues in performance also right ?

 

 

+1

It's going to be the end all of OOM crashes primarily.  Perhaps there is more to be had w/ caching terrain in all of that vast VAS associated w/ 64-bit and my 32GB's of physical ram, or other sorts of ways to exploit the now very inexpensive physical ram which again sits on the sidelines waiting for a creative approach to access.

 

And when the 64 bit version comes out, people will starting loading it with scenery, until it hits the OOM ceiling and then people will be wanting a 128 bit.....

All I ask for is a stable sim with moderate sliders and some traffic. Also good wx. I like having all the other "eye candy", but it really is about stability and performance for me.