If the trees are beautiful or not is an opinion and therefore does not count, 

 

That's really all that matters to me, in fact, especially since I'm not losing frames. So the cased is closed in my book.

 

Happy hunting. I will be flying.

 

As you see some people like this product, others don't.

So whose opinion exactly will you find to be ultimate?

 

 Never have I seen such a bruhaha, such a number of pages dedicated to one relatively inexpensive, single product in such a short time!

 

 I would value the opinion of somebody who:

 

1. Reads the marketing copy, and buys the product, and receives the benefit that Orbx said they would receive, and kept the product, and reported their satisfaction.

 

Or

 

2. Bought the product, tried it out, and found that it did not come up to the marketing claims of Orbx. And asked for a refund and got it, and reported their satisfaction.

 

Or 

 

3. Are sick of being exploited by one-sided EULAs  and companies refusing to give refunds, and reported their Dis-satisfaction. And;

 

...who form a class action suit demanding treble damages for false Advertising....lacking any other recourse. BUT;

 

 

that is not what appears to be the case with Orbx.

 

A look at their refunds page appears to be pretty liberal and for that they should be congratulated.

 

 

 

So, what are we to do?

 

The real answer lies somewhere between a class action suit and smacking the wrist of the offender. How about a nice behind the barn Case o' whup-a$s?

 

....a Spanking?

 

....I think we, the House of Avsim  are doing that here...right now...and I don't think that Orbx's publicity department or any other Company that decides to service the flight Sim community will soon forget.

 

 In-so-far-as the frame-rate increase is concerned...Did they over-state (mis-represent?) their claims?? From the responses here, yes. Are their very glossily presented before and after pictures real? I would say they probably are.

 

Did they deliver on the full claim and content of their ad-copy? 

 

 

...IMHO  they did not....am I going to keep the product?

 

mmmmmmmmmmmmm....I'll letcha know...now that I've spoken my piece...(peace?)

 

Chas

Deleted my post, information I posted was incorrect.   Sorry

Chas... The answer is no discernible impact. (I was just teasing)

"Class-action lawsuit"

 

  :rolleyes:

"Class-action lawsuit"

 

  :rolleyes:

 

Is your plane on autopilot? You said you were going to fly!    

 

jokes apart, in this thread are we deliriously? I do not think as the performance improvement is unquestionably one of the most important ("marketed") features of this product.

 

Does this thread show that it is impossible a performance boost from Trees HD? No, it seems that in some circumstances, for some systems, with some settings there can actually be an improvement, even if it should be tested more.

 

is therefore the behavior of Orbx been above reproach? no, at least not for how it was presented the product

 

the product is cheap, so who cares? perhaps, one is free to read it or not, but imho it is also a matter of principle: we can not allow any developer to take us for a ride, even if it is the most blazoned. in general I see a little 'too much outrage when criticism this developer appear. Perhaps it is for this reason that this thread is so long.

 

EDIT: Done other numerous 60sec. FRAPS tests on FTX CYSE (NA Squamish), that shows no significant and consistent FPS boost Trees HD on or off with 1K or 2K textures.

 

 

in general I see a little 'too much outrage when criticism this developer appear. Perhaps it is for this reason that this

 

REX soft clouds was pretty long and with many punters laying the boot in pretty hard and this thread is fairly mild in comparison however they are both similar as its subjective to rate this type of software and thats why I don't own either of them as Im not convinced by the reviews and am very happy with the suprisingly good free treeX B)

There is a post on there support forums about no increase in FPS.

I guy did some tests with FPS, A dev replyed to say ..you cannot see more than 20-25 fps anyway......EPIC fail.

 

I replied supporting a reply linking links showing how wrong he was and also informed them there was lots of talk on here about no increase in FPS and I also see no increase.

 

Result = They deleted reply. 

 

 good old Orbx Mod's

 

 

From product page Fightsimstore a bullet point

• Optimize models actually IMPROVE your FPS by up to 20%!

"The most incredible part is that Trees HD will actually IMPROVE your sim's performance! New optimized tree models reduce the burden on your system, resulting in up to a 20% INCREASE in FPS and no increase in VAS usage compared to what you are experiencing now."

 

yer right!

 

Some Orbx "follower" will say "its says UP TO" so that could mean 0 to some" :o  :blink:

 

Anyway on a possitive note

They look a lot better so hey O, 

At the price they are its no big deal, just think to advertise something that imply's a big increase in FPS is wrong. 

David, as an eyewitness of that very ORBX thread I can confirm your observations!  

 

On an even lighter note, I watched a video on the ORBX forum, demonstrating vegetation before and after HD Trees installation. There wasn't too much of a difference, IMO.

But after the Trees release, customers posted screenshots that showed much bigger differences in vegetation, from my POV.

 

It's really tough for me to reach a final verdict on this product, taking into account looks, fps, VAS, polygon count, cell draws and stuff ...

 

 

EDIT: Done other numerous 60sec. FRAPS tests on FTX CYSE (NA Squamish), that shows no significant and consistent FPS boost Trees HD on or off with 1K or 2K textures.

 

Are you doing all your testing at Orbx payware airports?

Orbx says HD Trees will not be installed to some of their payware airports because these airports use their own custom models.

 

You would be better off testing at say a non-payware bush airport in one of their regions.

 

gb.

Are you doing all your testing at Orbx payware airports?

Orbx says HD Trees will not be installed to some of their payware airports because these airports use their own custom models.

 

You would be better off testing at say a non-payware bush airport in one of their regions.

 

gb.

 

ok maybe

 

just do another test in the middle of PNW wild montain area (a lot of trees) with a saved game. Same test but with ASN on in offline mode

 

no significant difference

 

Anybody else?

Orbx says HD Trees will not be installed to some of their payware airports because these airports use their own custom models

Quote from Alex Goff at Orbx: "Trees HD replaces all trees in regions, the only custom autogen not replaced is at certain payware airports."

 

 

 

That statement is verified by the many screen shots taken in full-fat Orbx regions. As noted, some payware airports won't change, but some will.

 

 

 

 

Nevermind

ok maybe

 

just do another test in the middle of PNW wild montain area (a lot of trees) with a saved game. Same test but with ASN on in offline mode

 

no significant difference

 

Anybody else?

If the difference is there, I'll notice. In the meantime, until I get this product installed during the weekend, when I have time........................I just don't care for too many more subjective opinions on the subject. With my system, a decrease in frame rates would be welcomed.  They're so high now, that it's almost embarrassing to talk about, in front of a common computer.....

With my system, a decrease in frame rates would be welcomed. They're so high now, that it's almost embarrassing to talk about, in front of a common computer.....

LMAO at this statement (...that's a good problem to have !)

 

As with any software (including operating systems), YMMV on your own hardware / hardware drivers / system optimization, FS add-ons, etc..

 

This relatively inexpensive add-on developed by a long-time fellow flight-simmer at the same time as he was pursuing an advanced flight certification in real life, merits consideration and discussion, and perhaps might even be acquired by some flight simmers ...to encourage further development in the future, as IMHO it looks quite promising.

 

It seems reasonably apparent that there is no detrimental impact on one's FS installation, and if the cost of the current product under discussion is a critical decision to some, that expense is likely to be among the least of any problems they may be facing in life.

 

Personally, I appreciate the individual efforts of Scott Armstrong, and hope he may re-work many other types of default trees in the future, regardless of what publisher distributes / retails his work.

 

 

However, I would NOT want to see efforts by OrbX to 'restrict' use of this product for custom scenery object placement design activities by purchasers on the basis of OrbX having changed the internal FS default tree object MDLs into a purportedly "custom" object ...while still retaining the original associated GUIDs given to those objects by MS-ACES.

 

If such objects do replace the internal FS default tree object MDLs into a custom object with a new GUID ONLY while in the "active" mode as set by ex: FTX Central, and there is an option to temporarily disable as well as un-install the tree product, then I see little cause for concern with using these "enhanced" trees for general flight-simming and/or use of FS default trees for FS scenery development when this product is installed

 

 

BTW: The reason this LM-P3D (and the "OrbX" forum) exists at AVSIM is to ensure there is an independent setting for discussion and expression of thoughts and opinions, presentation of personal testing results etc. ...without unreasonable efforts by 3rd parties (ex: marketing people) to censor content.

 

I would not encourage efforts to post in a forum environment which arbitrarily censors content, any more than I would support the efforts of a dictatorial government which censors the internet in an effort to control its citizens.

 

 

Happy Flying ! :smile:

 

GaryGB