Nice video - the 172 looks so much nicer in 11!

Nice video - the 172 looks so much nicer in 11!

 

It's a nice model. Very good flight dynamics.

 

My plane is real life is a 182P (feels nothing like a 172, extremely nose heavy) and I only have 5-6 hours in a 172 (all my training and IFR were done in pipers), but it really feels right on the landing/flare phase of flight and that's something most simulators struggle with.

Yes small airports would be a good start for ORBX , they will make some for India

I'm not sure I agree with the posts about how more FSX/P3D developers coming over to XP will hurt the freeware scene. I honestly don;t see the connection. If anything this will force payware devs to put out a superior product. When you have the likes of MisterX putting out payware quality freeware scenery why would anyone pay for the same scenery unless it's even better? This puts pressure on devs like ORBX not the other way around.

its more down to the fact that players like orbx will come and say here mister-x  we give you 15k do this airport for us, we handle the rest. and then he will be gone from the market.

 

Its a double sided sword, the bigger x-plane gets the bigger the market gets. I know people like the romantic idea that a freeware community exists because of the sheer love of people towards each other, the reality is more that it exists because the market is not viable yet.

 

 

I know people like the romantic idea that a freeware community exists because of the sheer love of people towards each other, the reality is more that it exists because the market is not viable yet.

 

Nailed it.

I was just thinking. What if next version of P3D will be 64 bits. Then all ORBX predictions in 64 bits...

I second that the world in XP11 is amazing. My best feeling is that XP11 has the framework/engine totally done right and it just needs more data/objects like OSM, POI to fill it up to the fullest. Maybe Orbx can do a great job here.

 

The way P3D/FSX dealing with scenery feels clearly like a deadend. Of course, I'm curious to see what P3D v4 64bit can do to win me back to P3D... 

I was just thinking. What if next version of P3D will be 64 bits. Then all ORBX predictions in 64 bits...

they already said that in their roadmap. project p  will be 64bits.  And tbh it is not really a suprise. it is more a when then an if....

I don't think people DON'T want OrbX to develop for X Plane.  What I have seen is comparisons between OrbX payware for FSX and default X Plane scenery, and, at least in my opinion, X Plane 11 default scenery is extremely hard to top.  Deep down, it's "Oh NOW you like X Plane?  2-3 years ago you said it had no future...but NOW you like it when it's more popular."

People were screaming for FSX dev's to make add ons for X Plane.  The reason they didn't was "There's no market.".  So it was up to dedicated X Plane developers, freeware and payware, to make add ons while making so little money, they had to work a full time job at the same time.

In my opinion, X Plane is where it is now because of these developers, the team at Laminar, and the fantastic collaboration Laminar had with developers in what they wanted in a sim.  All the hard work was done and that paved the way for FSX developers to say "Ok, now there's a market.  Now we'll go over." not knowing what it took to get X-Plane to where it is.

It has absolutely nothing to do with spite.  The arrogance and ignorance John displayed was something these hard working developers don't easily forget.  Especially after dedicating thousands of hours to a payware product just to make enough money to buy a happy meal.  Trust me, I've been there and done that.

FSX users get ropeable when someone criticizes anything about FSX.  And that's just opinions flight simmers have.  A developer with a reputation doing the same thing, based on very few facts, is a serious blow below the belt. And as a developer, he should have known better.

 

So what if he's arrogant or ignorant?  Does it impact you in any way what JV says?  It has everything to do with spite per your comment.  Yes, most people that want to work for money are going to look at market share, that's just good business.  Sorry XP7 thru XP10 (the years I've been using XP) did NOT have good market share and you can put that blame squarely on LR's shoulders, if that weren't the case, then why is XP11 getting more attention ... because it looks better and that is thanks to LR.  But, it's still NOT determined if XP11 will get enough more market share ... I keep hoping it does but if the Xplane user base is "want everything for free" then I don't see much growth happening with XP11.  A good business person will diversify their talents ... deep down the talent is texture manipulation and 3D graphics manipulation ... a common process used in every flight simulator platform (and game platforms).  Orbx have given away more freeware airports/scenery than ANY development company EVER ... and I make that statement with 100% verifiable evidence.

 

Well said Goran. 

 

I remember what JV said a few years ago, but the guy often says loudly what he is thinking and that's just who he is, I'd guessed the time would come when they would rethink their strategy and when I was heavily into FSX I thought X-Plane was awful as well :wink: . After that comment (and other ones in the past), X-Plane continued on without them and freeware and payware developers continued and made a name for themselves aside from the large FSX companies, pushing the sim forward, and now with the large amount of interest in XP11, they have changed their tune. Can't say anyone is surprised anymore, XP is becoming more popular (I've never seen this forum so busy as it is now)

 

Of course I'd love to see ORBX (who wouldn't?), but there are two things that worry me. One is I hope it doesn't kill the freeware scenery side of X-Plane, and number two, as jcomm said, their stuff is actually rather expensive. I'd love to see their airports ported over (and be as good as Beti-X ;-). A lot of the airport devs I followed in the past (Russ and Bill Womack) from ORBX have gone their own separate ways now anyway, but I'll be first in line to buy their airfields if they start releasing them.

 

The time will come when LR step up their game, XP11 is showing signs of improvement.  Market's grow when products work well and look good, the harsh reality is that XP7 thur XP10 didn't look good and didn't work well with performance.  I don't, seems to me many don't want Orbx involved in XP11 ... not that it's their choice, Orbx will come if LR deliver and the market share grows ... build it and they will come.  Freeware didn't suffer in FSX or P3D, still kept being made.

 

You describe the purchase process, but the scenery downloaded by FTXCentral still has to go into "Custom Scenery" -- and once it is in "Custom Scenery", users have full access to each and every file in it.

 

It's interesting to see how they will prevent this. Maybe a plugin in the scenery folder that decompresses scenery files only if the user data are correct (serial etc.) and otherwise moves the users position to somewhere in the ocean or stops X-Plane loading at all. But once the scenery is loaded and X-Plane running, all files still need to be at a place where X-Plane expects them, and at that point the files are accessable by and can be copied by everyone. They could be moved to a new folder, without the protecting plugin, and then the protection would not work anymore.

 

I'm wondering about that mainly because one of X-Plane's biggest advantages is that it is self-contained. You can move the entire X-Plane folder to a different place, you can create as many copies as you like, and most of it will still work. The more addons we get with DRM, the harder this might get.

 

I'm not going to go into details of how Orbx protect their work, but they do have the ability and have in the past wiped out Orbx folders when illegal copies are detected ... which I know is why some people don't like Orbx and why some can't get to Orbx forums any more.  DRM is essential for developers when they know that 60%+ of their hard work is stolen.  Again, this isn't communism, it's capitalism, people want to get paid for their 1000's of hours of work.  XP user base that doesn't respect this isn't going to attracted more 3rd party content developers.

 

Rob, what 4k performance issues are you having?  I run both P3D (using your settings btw) and XP11 at 4k with a GTX 1080. XP 11 performs much better and smoother except with default clouds enabled--which is remedied by using X-Enviro. In fact, that is one of the main reasons I have become a convert to XP.  My settings are all high to max but with no ground shadows (that might be what you are referring to--they admittedly cause a big performance hit). I have never fallen below 25 fps even at the busiest airports with 7+ AI planes and crappy weather.  The overall experience of XP + XEnviro is MUCH smoother than P3D with AS16 for instance: no autogen pop-in, no stutters, etc.  

 

I've worked around some of the performance issues per my videos and I do use xEnviro ... it's "ok" performance right now, but my fear is that when Shadows are done correctly and cloud shadows are added and we see proper water wave motion and wakes, then I'll have to compromise performance even more with XP11 ... XP11 B2 is still missing some key render intensive processing.

 

Anyway, bottom line I would welcome Orbx, FT, Virtuali, FSDT, UK2000, FB, etc. etc. to the XP11 world ... threads like this however might leave a bad impression for 3rd party devs looking to diversify ... we should embrace them, not hold grudges.

 

Cheers, Rob.

I second that the world in XP11 is amazing. My best feeling is that XP11 has the framework/engine totally done right and it just needs more data/objects like OSM, POI to fill it up to the fullest. Maybe Orbx can do a great job here.

 

The way P3D/FSX dealing with scenery feels clearly like a deadend. Of course, I'm curious to see what P3D v4 64bit can do to win me back to P3D... 

 

In this case all P3D addons that I purchased over the years will suddenly become useless. Start over again? My wallet can't afford it. As of right now XP11 looks way better in this respect. 

About time we have some top name 3rd party developers for X-Plane! Best flight simming news I've heard in awhile!

 

Now all we need is Aerosoft Airbus, Qualitywings, A2A, FlyTampa, FSDT, Flightbeam, etc.

I'm not going to go into details of how Orbx protect their work, but they do have the ability and have in the past wiped out Orbx folders when illegal copies are detected ... which I know is why some people don't like Orbx and why some can't get to Orbx forums any more. DRM is essential for developers when they know that 60%+ of their hard work is stolen. Again, this isn't communism, it's capitalism, people want to get paid for their 1000's of hours of work. XP user base that doesn't respect this isn't going to attracted more 3rd party content developers.

 

As you may see below of my avatar picture, I'm a sort-of part-time developer, too, so I fully understand the thinking behind DRM. I don't talk against it, although we don't use it on our products.

 

This said, it's still interesting how to do that for scenery. It can be made complex for users without much knowledge, but basically at runtime all the scenery files MUST be present in X-Plane's custom scenery folder in one way or another, be it the actual files or symbolic links to another location. All plugins they might install into X-Plane to check this can be easily removed by users, so I can only think of a system-wide installation of a "service" that constantly checks the X-Plane folder for illegal activities. But in contrast to FSX/P3D, the X-Plane folder is easily renamed, moved, copied, etc. -- one of its features is that it is independent from system-wide settings and services.

 

Or they approach Laminar and ask that Laminar create a builtin DRM feature into X-Plane that allows reading encrypted compressed scenery packages. This could be made in a way users can't easily circumvent.

Sorry XP7 thru XP10 (the years I've been using XP) did NOT have good market share and you can put that blame squarely on LR's shoulders, if that weren't the case, then why is XP11 getting more attention ... because it looks better and that is thanks to LR.  But, it's still NOT determined if XP11 will get enough more market share ... I keep hoping it does but if the Xplane user base is "want everything for free" then I don't see much growth happening with XP11.

 

It's not that the X-Plane user base "wants everything for free." Users will pay for an aircraft model that raises the bar high enough. Everything I fly in X-Plane is payware.

 

Some of it includes DRM, and that doesn't bother me, because the product is good enough and the DRM method isn't very intrusive (one-time activation). 

 

Scenery is different, in part because we already have great high-def terrain mesh and a growing number of excellent airports in both free and payware versions. And also because scenery is so easy to organize under X-Plane's open file system. Depending on the method Orbx uses to lock its payware scenery, I can see some resistance to DRM from the existing user base (migrating users from FSX/P3D won't mind, I suppose). It will be fascinating to see how this develops. 

Or they approach Laminar and ask that Laminar create a builtin DRM feature into X-Plane that allows reading encrypted compressed scenery packages. This could be made in a way users can't easily circumvent.

 

I can't see Austin doing this. It might be a smart business move that would attract more 3rd party developers, but Austin has never treated X-Plane like a normal commercial product. It would probably be a Windows-only solution too, and that would violate the OS-agnostic design of the sim.

Maybe for the licensing thing they can lock the scenery to the hardware ? Its like a hardware lock dongle i don't how it works or if it may work.

 

But yes apart from copying the scenery folder they have to manage multiplatform or leave it only for windows. 

I know people like the romantic idea that a freeware community exists because of the sheer love of people towards each other, the reality is more that it exists because the market is not viable yet.

 

 

I agree with that. FSX once had a relatively large amount of freeware scenery and aircraft being utilized, but eventually the user base realized that such scenery was fraught with mistakes, quirks and bugs. And once a specific freeware author lost interest, that scenery was orphaned. Gradually, payware scenery, addons and aircraft took over the FSX market. Freeware tends to be prevalent after a sim is finally abandoned by the sim's author, for example FS9 and MS Flight. FSX had new life breathed into it, because it shares many of the same file formats with P3d. But, eventually, commercial vendors will stop writing stuff for 32 bit sims too.