4 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

Absolutely. I'm going to try and remember this thread, where undying P3D loyalist Rob A. said on day 4 of MSFS' release that it had failed, and offered a Steam review of 66% positive as proof.

I seriously don't know why you guys listen to him. He's really not doing you any favors by saying 'don't worry, nothing to see with MSFS, P3D can carry on at its own pace'. Even if you think P3D has the advantage of in-depth addons at the moment, which do you think is going to be more difficult; a) for MSFS to up its add-on game, or b) for P3D to find a way to compete with MSFS scenery and atmosphere rendering? Rob's attempts to diss the scenery by saying 'if you fly low at speed it's not that good' are sooooo weak.

Let's flip it around and highlight the uber fans' and FS influencers' comments about MSFS shall we?

'Asobo said the project will be around for the next 10 years' - so why rush the release?
'It's only default aircraft' - then why were we told very publically before launch just how realistic the handling was?
'MSFS has already killed the competition' - tell me; how faithful to reality is that CAT IIIb approach in the default A32N? (The Zibo 737 seems to have that nailed as a default aircraft).

Look, MSFS in certain respects - weather depiction, air flow modelling, photogrammetry cities, streamed global photo scenery, atmospheric lighting - is an outstanding game changer. However, the constant slapping down of anyone raising legitimate criticisms that would actually improve the sim is beyond tiresome.

MSFS isn't terrible, but it isn't the sim-to-end-all-sims that a lot of fans are claiming it is either.
It needs a lot of work to the platform and some payware aircraft to enter the scene before it can truly claim to be the no.1 flight sim.

In the meantime, I hope that P3D 5.1 comes soon and improves what has been started.
For me, a payware airliner flight with EA on, over an Orbx TE region into a quality developer's airport with some weather and some AI traffic cannot be beaten (yet).
 

24 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

Absolutely. I'm going to try and remember this thread, where undying P3D loyalist Rob A. said on day 4 of MSFS' release that it had failed, and offered a Steam review of 66% positive as proof.

I seriously don't know why you guys listen to him. He's really not doing you any favors by saying 'don't worry, nothing to see with MSFS, P3D can carry on at its own pace'. Even if you think P3D has the advantage of in-depth addons at the moment, which do you think is going to be more difficult; a) for MSFS to up its add-on game, or b) for P3D to find a way to compete with MSFS scenery and atmosphere rendering? Rob's attempts to diss the scenery by saying 'if you fly low at speed it's not that good' are sooooo weak.

It's the same on the XP forums, devs desperately trying to fling mud at what is clearly a hugely promising platform, while failing to treat it with the competitive respect it deserves, and bring a sense of urgency to the competition. Even though I'm very happy with MSFS so far, I wouldn't want them to be the only game in town at all.

Sorry to say, but Rob, as an alpha/beta tester for both MSFS and P3D , his wealth of Fs knowledge. his hardware knowledge etc etc knows what he is talking about.

He does not look at Flightsims through pink glasses like many did and some still do.

Another developer has also mentioned that : 

 

It’s not just performance it’s also the scenery itself,

They target this as a vfr oriented sim, but if you go to any city that’s modeled below 500ft you can see trees and all sort of stuff protruding from every building on every street,

NYC look like a scary nightmare, allot of mesh issue we cannot fix, night lighting also sucks, it looks nice from 2500ft and above, at 500 you will be flying below most street lights,

 
 

And I hope that MSFS can live up to the hype that has been created. 
The more features are pushed in it the more performance will suffer.

At this moment the SDK is too simple for PMDG or FsLabs ac.

There is no such thing as a free ride....

Like with P3D or XP it will be finding a balance between performance and eyecandy/ac systems ...

Rob confidently says MSFS was a nice idea that has already failed. It seems that his knowledge of P3D software and hardware features somehow bizarrely qualifies him for the people of this forum to make such strong claims.

OK, let’s see where we are 6 months or a year down the line. Personally, I think Rob is selling you snake oil, but you seem quite happy to believe him so...

MSFS is released, way too early (just like P3Dv5 did but it is another story), and some guys still haven't not found the way out of this exaggerated, extremly tremendous hype about MSFS. Guys, take it easy, enjoy MSFS and then it's fine. You should be happy and there is no reason to bash P3D.

Appreciated Rob informative posts, thank you Rob!

1 hour ago, scotchegg said:

I seriously don't know why you guys listen to him.

That's pretty simple - he knows what he is talking about! Which can't be said about the majority of the f@nboys in the MSFS forum.

Make no mistake - I'm flying in MSFS as we speak, but the novelty is slowly wearing off, so I'll be back in my FSLabs A320-X  on P3D v5HF2 later.

8 hours ago, fluffyflops said:

Governments love spending tax money incorrectly

Please stick to flight sims or something else you know something about. Or are you trying to get this thread locked?

Already reported.

3 hours ago, GSalden said:

Sorry to say, but Rob, as an alpha/beta tester for both MSFS and P3D , his wealth of Fs knowledge. his hardware knowledge etc etc knows what he is talking about.

Rob and I usually agree about most things related to flightsims. But in my opinion his criticisms of MSFS are over the top. At release, it's a beautiful VFR simulator.

Unfortunately it was rushed out the door in order to capture a bored, housebound population who have the COVID-19 blues. And there's no doubt in my mind that the impending debut of MSFS also forced LM to release a half-done P3d5.

We are still in the first phase of a long term competition and as I've said before, in six months the situation will look totally different.

The lighting in P3d needs massive work. Everything with it is obsolete in my opinion. I also don’t envy Lockheed right now if they intend to compete. The biggest advantage right now with P3d in my opinion is software compatibility. I don’t see how they could make big changes without destroying this. Then if they did that they would have an even bigger hill to climb. I was very critical of msfs as an alpha tester. But obviously the NDA prevented me from saying much. But after spending more time with the release I see a huge potential here. Part of the biggest challenge for me was just getting used to different controls and a different camera system. It will be interesting to see how this battle will shape up. If LM wants to stay viable they really need to get a whole lot better at telling us their vision and plans. The silent thing does not work well these days. 

3 hours ago, scotchegg said:

Rob confidently says MSFS was a nice idea that has already failed. It seems that his knowledge of P3D software and hardware features somehow bizarrely qualifies him for the people of this forum to make such strong claims.

OK, let’s see where we are 6 months or a year down the line. Personally, I think Rob is selling you snake oil, but you seem quite happy to believe him so...

He is not selling anything to anyone, we are at the p3d forum, a place for p3d users, we don´t need him to sell us anything we already have. I know p3d strengths and flows and I enjoy my sim experience in it.

I have also bought MSFS 2020, I was not in the alpha/beta, and since the first day I have enjoyed a lot. 

To be honest, I was starting to lose motivation in flightsiming lately. The full process of choosing a flight, plan it, open p3d, call the gsx for boarding, fly the airplane, land it, shut it down, log the flight in my logbook...there was something missing and I was losing interest.

I put a lot of expectations in the MSFS2020 and when I flown it the first time it was like a breath of fresh air...I have been flying VFR, visited my hometown for the first time in 5 years, flown around my family`s homes...I have logged 25 hours in it.

But then the inevitable happened, and somehow I start missing my airliners flights and the fidelity of Fslabs, Pmdg, MaddogX aircraft. I never uninstalled my P3DV5HF2, I only delete Orbx Vector and the OLC along with TE, I only left global and tressHD in order to save some HD space. And finally today I did a KATL-KFLL JBU567 in my A320X and boy that was awesome.

So now I am enjoying both simulators, the best of the worlds for us simmers. But it doesn´t mean I can´t express some frustrations for things MS/Asobo could have done better in MSFS2020 and Rob has expressed better than anyone.

I also think you shall read what he wrote again, without any prejudice. He never said "MSFS2020 was a nice idea that has already failed", he said "MS/Asobo can't do streaming at acceptable LOD/quality/FPS of "moment in time" data, why do you think LM would want to try that same failed process?" because he thinks we still don´t have the hardware for that. 

Edited August 22, 20205 yr by ttbq1

11 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

I've been going back and forth comparing identical flightplans in MSFS and P3d5. On a sunny day hand flying VFR, there's no comparison. MSFS wins hands down. But in cloudy, windy and/or rainy weather, P3d5 is about piloting and MSFS is not. The weather never matches up against what I see with Active Sky. The MSFS autopilot goes bonkers when you least expect it. The clouds don't look as good as those in trueSky, even with the jarring EA transitions. The ATC is maddening in MSFS and the AI traffic is paltry. Of course I'm comparing those features to VOXATC combined with AIG traffic. 

All these comparisons are obviously unfair to MSFS which is like a newborn baby. But sadly that's the present status. MSFS is an unfinished product. Six months from now the situation will be different.

Agreed!

4 hours ago, scotchegg said:

Rob confidently says MSFS was a nice idea that has already failed. It seems that his knowledge of P3D software and hardware features somehow bizarrely qualifies him for the people of this forum to make such strong claims.

OK, let’s see where we are 6 months or a year down the line. Personally, I think Rob is selling you snake oil, but you seem quite happy to believe him so...

Did you even read @F737NG 's post?   I think that expresses the view pretty well, of most...

You on the other hand -- and you can correct me if I'm wrong -- seem to be of the mind that you're getting delusion and possibly even bad vibes in the P3D subforum.  That is not what you are getting.  What you are getting are no rose-colored glasses, and an eye that, in 6 months or a year, things may indeed be different.  That's what @F737NG said, plus more.

I'll just post this here. While I wait for P3D 5.1

Edited August 22, 20205 yr by RamonB

6 hours ago, scotchegg said:

Absolutely. I'm going to try and remember this thread, where undying P3D loyalist Rob A. said on day 4 of MSFS' release that it had failed, and offered a Steam review of 66% positive as proof.

I seriously don't know why you guys listen to him. He's really not doing you any favors by saying 'don't worry, nothing to see with MSFS, P3D can carry on at its own pace'. Even if you think P3D has the advantage of in-depth addons at the moment, which do you think is going to be more difficult; a) for MSFS to up its add-on game, or b) for P3D to find a way to compete with MSFS scenery and atmosphere rendering? Rob's attempts to diss the scenery by saying 'if you fly low at speed it's not that good' are sooooo weak.

It's the same on the XP forums, devs desperately trying to fling mud at what is clearly a hugely promising platform, while failing to treat it with the competitive respect it deserves, and bring a sense of urgency to the competition. Even though I'm very happy with MSFS so far, I wouldn't want them to be the only game in town at all.

Can those of you who feel the need to trash Rob A please:

1. Remember that he's done more for the Avsim Prepar3d forum over the years than pretty much anyone here. His posts have helped hundreds/thousands of simmers. What have you done?

2. Go away. Seriously.