Sack the Saboteur - Seriously!...

[Fielder 3,742]

8 hours ago, tweekz said:

I think they've improved sensitivity a little with one of the last patches. But it's still ridiculous how careful you have to touch the controls to make a smooth flare.

I think part of the problem might also be inertia and too pronounced ground effect.

Pitts Special, stock, you must be easy on the controls to land. 3 changes in the code and it is way easier.

// elevator_effectiveness = 1
// aileron_effectiveness = 2
// rudder_effectiveness = 1

elevator_effectiveness = .17
aileron_effectiveness = .09
rudder_effectiveness = .09

The plane flight model is still the same, so not a cheat, the only adjustments mimic tightening or lengthening the control linkage cables. (I prefer very gentle controls and changed the values more than most sim pilots would).

 

The add-on Cessna L-19 Bird Dog perhaps skates with less friction on landing than other planes. Shifting the center of gravity forward and that problem mostly goes away, like in real life when the loads are moved forward.

// station_load.0 =170,  0, 0, -0, Station 1
// station_load.1 =170,  2.0, -0, -0, Station 2
// station_load.2 =100,  3.8, -0, -0.7, Station 3

station_load.0 =170, -2,   0,  -0, Station 1
station_load.1 =170,  0,  -0,  -0, Station 2
station_load.2 =100, 1.8, -0,  -0.7, Station 3

 

Note: Every twice monthly update overwrites the files back to stock. I have to take 15 minutes to overwrite 20 default and 8 addon plane files back. Deluxe and premium default planes I cannot mod and therefore I don't ever fly.

Changes to flight_model.cfg can be seen immediately as you tweak the file until you are liking what you see. But only in developer mode, click open a new project, and click 'resync' to make the changes without having to close down the sim. Takes about 15 seconds.

[marsman2020 1,310]

50 minutes ago, Noel said:

Indeed, patience is being lost by the 'sim' crowd, 3 months and a week post initial release     Take a big deep breath it's VERY EARLY in a 10y platform, or so this has been hinted at, and well it should be.  It clearly has the makings of something w/ major sticking power as the world is enhanced more and more over time, along w/ more technically authentic adjustments.  They're working on getting it ready for the Xbox crowd is all and pay lip service to aspects less relavent to that short-term focus.  Of course, this is just my conjecture to help offset the sky is falling sentiment here.

How many years out of the 10 years am I supposed to put up with broken and breaking stuff?  7?  5?  After Asobo already spent 3 years developing the sim?  Why should I trust that they will ever fix anything, when 3 years + 3 months hasn't been enough, and they continue to make things WORSE with new releases like the Autopilot roll/heading change (which I am spending the better part of my afternoon on a 4 day weekend editing video of 3 different simulators autopilots together into 1 video to try to send to ZenDesk to help show Asobo why the changes they made are no good....)

There was an entire thread on the MSFS official forum about the AP that I just watched first get locked - and then the entire thread was deleted, wiped out, gone.

[Steku 158]

I consider the visual quality degraded vs the initial release. Tree distance smaller, popping up trees and objects, shoreline issues, grainy/flashing clouds, night lighting, melted photogrametry, flying light bulbs, lightning, low LOD issues. 

Visual quality is the hallmark feature and it's still degrading. When asked why - Asobo responds - we don't know, we can't reproduce, it wasn't intentional 😞

Edited November 29, 2020 by Steku

[bendead 1,090]

41 minutes ago, Noel said:

I am commenting only on the lack of patience here is all.  Give it time.

I can understand why some people are starting to lose their patience. If Asobo keep with this rhythm and a third of fixes/new things added each new patches are a step backward, how long til we got a perfectly stable platform with all the promised features, 1-2 more years?

That's more indie game than AAA

But the main issue for the majority of posters here, is the fact that something is wrong since the release of MSFS, and there is no sign that it's actually getting better.

I will be harsh, but the only thing Asobo is doing very well now, is creating frustration among the community.

Edited November 29, 2020 by bendead

[MikeyOnTheFlightDeck 209]

7 minutes ago, bendead said:I can understand why some people are starting to lose their patience. If Asobo keep with this rhythm and a third of fixes/new things added each new patches are a step backward, how long til we got a perfectly stable platform with all the promised features, 1-2 more years?

That's more indie game than AAA

But the main issue for the majority of posters here, is the fact that something is wrong since the release of MSFS, and there is no sign that it's actually getting better.

I will be harsh, but the only thing Asobo is doing very well now, is creating frustration among the community.

It’s not harsh at all. We’re over 3 months in and any initial confidence and faith in Asobo is waning as more patches and updates get released. Many were under no illusion that this is a beta product but a Christmas timescale was seen as realistic in order to overcome the initial hurdles. What’s happening now is that initial hurdles are taking much longer to overcome and some new hurdles have cropped up along the way. I was one of those crying out for a replay mode for example. Now I’m just crying out for aircraft that works properly.  Asobo need to get back to basics with the aircraft and deliver big time on their next patch otherwise these forums are going to turn into constant soap boxes. 

[Noel 4,563]

18 minutes ago, bendead said:

 If Asobo keep with this rhythm and a third of fixes/new things added each new patches are a step backward, how long til we got a perfectly stable platform with all the promised features, 1-2 more years?

Sure I understand, I just believe in the big pictures of their stated long-term agenda (unless it's fake news read here), the very recent release AND their relatively new role of managing updates while at the same time balancing workload w/ readying the project for its other platform release, it's too early to consider this will continue for much longer than a few months or weeks post Xbox release.  If it takes 1-2y, so be it it's miles ahead of the competition's painfully slow progress.  So this recent trend, which has been not good for some, very good for others, and somewhere in between for rest, is not likely to persist long IMO.  I think it's critical to put it in context versus this premature 'sky-is-falling' projection.  Unless you're really privy to MS/A's inner planning circle you have no idea what their agenda is.  Perhaps they declared as an absolute, 2020 holiday season is the target for release, and it needs to be good enough to make a splash, which it has very clearly done.  So they are still focused on meeting this #1 goal is my hunch, given just how robust the sim is already.  Should they have waited?  Well, they didn't think so, and again at this moment, they were right.  They took a chance and it's done well so far.  Good sales, lots of glowing reports.  They're ignoring acting on the negatives right now but they are fully aware of them absolutely.  They believe it will not matter, especially when they realize they are dealing w/ a crowd who has literally put up with the incredibly slow progress of the competition.

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Noel

[MarcG 3,031]

I have the patience to see this Sim out in its 10 year plan, but for me it's going backwards in the first few months as opposed to going forwards, seems to me they're not learning from these early mistakes and that's a worrying sign.

[James Callan 66]

But isn’t the point that the Beta was way better than the current graphics, AP, etc. They are moving backwards.

What if Asobo re-released the August Release and then called it a day? Publish the SDK as is and get out of the way for third parties who can get the job done?

Though I have been a True Believer up to #7, I can see that Asobo is way over their pay grade, I.e., they don’t actually know how to get beyond the Beta without screwing the pooch.

[kiwikat 529]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

Wow, 3 months out and some are ready to throw it out--unreal!

There's no "3" months about this. These issues have been going on for a year now. Months passed in the alpha where not a single developer responded to any issue posted. New releases came and went with the same basic issues that had been reported month after month, things that are still a problem today. Up until they added buggy new features to the sim post-release, I hadn't seen the public post a single issue that wasn't well reported by the alpha and beta team. The updates and Q&A sessions remain a PR stunt and there's still no developer presence in the community. They (whether it be Asobo or MS) have repeatedly demonstrated that they haven't learned a thing in the last year.

A "ten year platform" should mean we have something to enjoy for ten years, not wait ten years for it to become a suitable replacement for the last generation of sims. As the days go on I feel less and less confident Asobo is up to the task. I welcome them to convince me otherwise, but the last year hasn't been reassuring to say the least.

I'm left in an awkward spot where I can't get myself to use the new sim, and I can't get myself to use the old sims. Never in my 25 years of simming have I seen a release where we took such a leap backward in basic flight logic, sim functionality, and user interface. Some might say that's to be expected with a brand new platform, but to me it just feels like a lack of focus and poor attention to detail. Oh, and ignoring the thousands of people who volunteered their time and efforts to test and give feedback to ensure this didn't happen.

Edited November 29, 2020 by kiwikat

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

6 minutes ago, kiwikat said:

I'm left in an awkward spot where I can't get myself to use the new sim, and I can't get myself to use the old sims.

Perfectly sums it up for me too. 

[GSalden 4,700]

The MSFS project is huge and I am sure the intentions were making the best flightsim app there ever was. 

It looks like it is a bit more than they can chew. There are many people working on it : scenery makers, system makers , ac makers etc. 
And they do their own parts of the code. 
Unfortunately it seems when adding scenery it breaks something in the system part or the ac part or elsewhere.

Amd imho they did not expect it to be that difficult and timeconsuming to configure the project so that everything works in harmony. So at release it wasn’t finished by far. However zo could fly my favorite ,the 787. Now I have not touched MSFS over 2 weeks. Waiting now for Prosim to release their 737-800 cockpit suite .+ model.

Were they went wrong in my opinion is that they continued to focus on scenery for the most part. It would have been better to make a solid base where they could built MSFS on.

I hope they can pull it of but the best guess for the future is always looking at how it went up to now...

 

 

[wthomas33065 994]

 "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana.

Seriously,  Some people here are pathetic.  If you look at the past forum posts right after the FSX release you will see the same repeat of doomsday predictions and developer shaming that is going on here.  It's documented history.  Read it,  It's really enlightening.  The biggest difference is that FSX received precisely two updates in it's entire release history and this one has thus far received over 3 times that many.

People kept complaining that MS was not responsive enough.   Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.  Now it seems we have a development team that is over eager to fix things and as a result gets over their ski's once in awhile.

Some of you attack Asobo and their employee's as being incompetent, but fail to explain that somehow despite their incompetence they got this far.

Some of you attack Asobo as being "arrogant" because of the livery disaster, but fail to explain why in their "height of arrogance" went back to the way it was before?   I mean if it was a conscious "arrogant" decision then why did they not stand by it.  Because the community made their "displeasure" known?  

So many here are suggesting that Asobo completely ignored their input and if they simply listened to "them" then things would be so much better.  Who's being arrogant?

The level if hysteria that has been demonstrated in this thread by individuals that I have seen previously make rational and logical statements from is astonishing.

Mistakes are being made, most likely due to miscommunication, which is exacerbated by the fact of working from home due to Covid.  Software development is a collaborative effort.  Remote meetings and skype messages don't substitute working hand and hand and face to face with others.  That is simple fact.  Yes, it can be done, but it is much more difficult, and much more prone to error.  And we are witnessing some of that error.

I am reminded of the release of "No Man's Sky" which was released to much criticism way before the developer wanted to release.  The criticism and the accusations from the gaming community was no more full of vitriol than we see here.  And yet simmers pride themselves of being "better" than mere gamers.   That would be funny if it weren't so ironic.  Despite the criticisms, the developers of No Man's Sky have continued to work on the product and now years later, it is almost unrecognizable.  

Yet 3 months from the official release of this product, while both the Developer and Publisher are still actively supporting the product, we have the naysayers throwing in the towel.  

Sounds like some of you need to take a break.  Go out for a long drive, take a long walk through the park, breathe in the fresh air.  Get some perspective.  I drove around south Florida today.  I passed by Miami international and recognized IRL all of the landmarks in my KMIA add on airport.  A quick drive up A1A from south beach through Fort Lauderdale with the top down reminded me what's really important.  And it isn't a computer game.  After this post, I'm starting up MSFS and retracing my route in the 152.  It will be glorious.  

So go ahead, continue to moan and complain.  Continue to accuse MS/Asobo of incompetence or fraud.  Continue to tell everyone else how the world would be a better place if they just listened to you.   It's not like all those things haven't been said before here on AVSIM.   You just have to look.

I'm out.  
 

[lambourne 211]

1 hour ago, James Callan said:

What if Asobo re-released the August Release and then called it a day? Publish the SDK as is and get out of the way for third parties who can get the job done?

His would be silly and they're clearly not going to do that. However, I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking the August version was an all round better product than the current game. I can't immediately think of any feature that's better now than it was at release.

[Maxis 1,886]

7 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

 "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana.

Seriously,  Some people here are pathetic.  If you look at the past forum posts right after the FSX release you will see the same repeat of doomsday predictions and developer shaming that is going on here.  It's documented history.  Read it,  It's really enlightening.  The biggest difference is that FSX received precisely two updates in it's entire release history and this one has thus far received over 3 times that many.

People kept complaining that MS was not responsive enough.   Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.  Now it seems we have a development team that is over eager to fix things and as a result gets over their ski's once in awhile.

Some of you attack Asobo and their employee's as being incompetent, but fail to explain that somehow despite their incompetence they got this far.

Some of you attack Asobo as being "arrogant" because of the livery disaster, but fail to explain why in their "height of arrogance" went back to the way it was before?   I mean if it was a conscious "arrogant" decision then why did they not stand by it.  Because the community made their "displeasure" known?  

So many here are suggesting that Asobo completely ignored their input and if they simply listened to "them" then things would be so much better.  Who's being arrogant?

The level if hysteria that has been demonstrated in this thread by individuals that I have seen previously make rational and logical statements from is astonishing.

Mistakes are being made, most likely due to miscommunication, which is exacerbated by the fact of working from home due to Covid.  Software development is a collaborative effort.  Remote meetings and skype messages don't substitute working hand and hand and face to face with others.  That is simple fact.  Yes, it can be done, but it is much more difficult, and much more prone to error.  And we are witnessing some of that error.

I am reminded of the release of "No Man's Sky" which was released to much criticism way before the developer wanted to release.  The criticism and the accusations from the gaming community was no more full of vitriol than we see here.  And yet simmers pride themselves of being "better" than mere gamers.   That would be funny if it weren't so ironic.  Despite the criticisms, the developers of No Man's Sky have continued to work on the product and now years later, it is almost unrecognizable.  

Yet 3 months from the official release of this product, while both the Developer and Publisher are still actively supporting the product, we have the naysayers throwing in the towel.  

Sounds like some of you need to take a break.  Go out for a long drive, take a long walk through the park, breathe in the fresh air.  Get some perspective.  I drove around south Florida today.  I passed by Miami international and recognized IRL all of the landmarks in my KMIA add on airport.  A quick drive up A1A from south beach through Fort Lauderdale with the top down reminded me what's really important.  And it isn't a computer game.  After this post, I'm starting up MSFS and retracing my route in the 152.  It will be glorious.  

So go ahead, continue to moan and complain.  Continue to accuse MS/Asobo of incompetence or fraud.  Continue to tell everyone else how the world would be a better place if they just listened to you.   It's not like all those things haven't been said before here on AVSIM.   You just have to look.

I'm out.  
 

 

May i take the opportunity to remind you of this  snippet of txt....

 

Look.  I understand this is a forum and people should be able to freely express their opinions and what not.  I get that.

But if someone opens a thread about how much they love, this or that, then why is there the need for some to rain on the parade and say....Yeah. but ....and then list their laundry list of grievances.  

I mean really.  

And conversely.  If someone has some actual grievances or issues, do we really need to jump all over the guy and try to dismiss his experience as well? 

I will be the first to admit it.  I love this program, and I am willing to see past a lot of bugs in the product.  So I know I bring a certain bias to the table.  But if someone does have a complaint, let's let them have it.  If it's something fixable, we can try to provide a fix or a workaround, but if it's just a rant.  Let's let them have it.  Let's not jump down their throat because they don't like x y or z.  Let's allow them to be dissatisfied.  

But at the same time, I ask for equal courtesy.  If someone opens a thread sharing how "golden" a flight they had, or shares a screenshot that they took, or is excited for a scenery product.  Can we all just agree not to rain all over their parade?

Maybe I AM being too grumpy.  I don't know.  You guys do what you see fit with this thread and post.  I'm going to spend some time in St. Maarten.  Maybe that will cheer me up.

 

Now if you have a contrarian point of view no problem have at it.. but unless you personally are invested  or work for Asobo i don't see how or why the tone of your post is just as hysterical as some of the others on here.

probably should follow the same advice given.

Have a good one...

Edited November 29, 2020 by Maxis

[peroni 541]

17 minutes ago, lambourne said:

I can't immediately think of any feature that's better now than it was at release

The August release version was a stutter fest on my PC, eventually fixed with the first update and improved even further in the following ones.
We also have two world updates for Japan and US, while not perfect they are a big step forward.

There were also plenty of small bugs fixed, some created by a previous patch but also some coming from the beta phase. The full release notes are available for all of the 7 patches over at https://www.flightsimulator.com/