It was so obvious from the beginning that this MSFS will be optimized for XBOX, I still can't believe many people (including myself) cheated themselves this time will be different. No it won't. Let Aerosoft and PMDG get some experience on this hot market, but I personally think selling "expensive" flightsim products to platform which :

1/ Can't really handle it as it should

2/ People who don't really have the capacity to operate the plane

3/ People who aren't really expecting excessive flightsiming from MSFS.

is like ... hmmm CaptainSim ... selling their 20$ planes to MSFS as a complete cr*p.. Why? Because these are the needs for XBOX platform and I hope I'm wrong, otherwise it'll be a very painful and money burning PMDG lesson.

Edited December 9, 20214 yr by F1le

2 minutes ago, F1le said:

It was so obvious from the beginning that this MSFS will be optimized for XBOX, I still can't believe many people (including myself) cheated themselves this time will be different. No it won't. Let Aerosoft and PMDG get some experience on this hot market, but I personally think selling "expensive" flightsim products to platform which :

1/ Can't really handle it as it should

2/ People who don't really have the capacity to operate the plane

3/ People who aren't really expecting excessive flightsiming from MSFS.

is like ... hmmm CaptainSim ... selling their 20$ planes to MSFS as a complete word not allowed for us. Why? Because these are the needs for XBOX platform and I hope I'm wrong, otherwise it'll be a very painful and money burning PMDG lesson.

Hopefully PMDG will stick to their high standards of developing advanced study level airliners despite the Xbox crowd will probably want to have dumbed down versions of the plane which is easier to fly.

Aerosoft has said several times that they listen to the market and what consumers want, and the Xbox crowd are not into deep systems simulation they might even start demanding easy to fly airliners. 

I think its safe to say that the bar for systems fidelity will go down on average but I hope I'm wrong. 

Maybe in P3D but lots of new complex planes are in pipeline for XP11 -> XP12...

I will cross-post here my reply to Robert Randazzo over at the PMDG forum:

--

I have been a PMDG customer since the Fly! days. I am also a business owner and perfectly understand the rough position you're finding yourselves in, and can all but be emphatic with your decision making and business priorities.

This next part of my message is from me to you as a frustrated customer, and I mean this in the most respectful and constructive way possible, and I hope you take it as such.

Remember, I have been a loyal customer for decades.

Having said that, I feel - yes, feelings, subjective as they are but nonetheless real - absolutely disappointed in your treatment as a P3D user. In all honesty, I couldn't care less about MSFS right now, because quite frankly, it is a mess. I'll just mention two aspects, related to "tubeliner" flying: It doesn't have - as of SU7 - accurate weather depiction nor does it use weather sources that may be used for flight planning reliably using real world sources; Also, it doesn't have a weather radar.

These two elements are - to me, again, in my subjective opinion - reasons enough why as of today, it is not ready for providing an accurate simulation of the airliner flying experience.

Now, why would you then focus so many resources into a platform which still requieres months of work in order to provide such an experience, which is - I asume - what 95% of your customers actually care for and the main reason why we are loyal customers and have been borderline fanatical about your products releases?.

Why "punish" us, who have trusted and given you our money in products such as the 200ER with the promise of an updated virtual cockpit, with delays related to a platform that poses actual risks to your business objectives such as releasing a toned-down MSFS 737?.

I respect your priorities and would never dare to tell you what you must do with your company, but you should probably think about the possibilities of having to reassess your priorities and consider what your actual customers, decades long customers, really want. I don't want to belittle Xbox users but I hardly believe they will stick around for the time that we have. I hope I'm wrong though, because I want you to be very successful because that means we'll have many years of great products from PMDG.

But I would love that success to be organic, natural... not as a result of alienating your loyal customer-base with moves such as the ones that I, for example, perceived from your message.

Yes, I feel like a second class citizen now as a P3D user.

Yes, I feel like I did wrong by purchasing your DC-6 for MSFS because it is working against my expectations to get a polished P3D product line soon.

Yes, I feel like what I am writing here will simply be ignored because the greener pastures awaiting for you on the other side of MSFS will be worth sacrificing a few lambs along the way.

Just think of this: today you're basically sidelining all things P3D for MSFS 737. It will be a huge success (and I really hope so). Then what confidence can we, as customers, have that you will not stall further developments on P3D after the MSFS 737 is out? Because by then, it'll be time for the 747. And then 777.

if the DC-6 lack of installers for P3Dv5 is any indication, I have reasons to be concerned about the future once the first MSFS (airliner) product is out.

--

Edited December 9, 20214 yr by evaamo

I was lucky not buying their MSFS product - not to support the "game" I uninstalled ... but I fully agree with your "letter".

30 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Installing the iFly now, prompted to run "ReadBGL" during install, any clues on what that is?

Cheers, Rob.

Looking forward to your impressions of the ifly.

is there anywhere where Ifly speaks about the max they are working on?  I'd like to read more

I purchased the 737nu.

It appears to be really nice. Looking forward to digging in.

It has massive manuals that seem to be well done, which is nice. Not flown yet; still getting oriented.

This announcement is no surprise for many. Very disappointing.  As usual, but “the timeline for that update is not yet clear” or jumping to different topics with the same un-materialized statement that the current plan is still to push this update out to P3D users. We heard that so many times already. 

This is going on for years across each product 737, 747, and 777 that is suffering from the issues with LNAV/VNAV, APFD systems, while their description for each product states “highly accurate LNAV/VNAV and auto-thrust modes, precise and realistic ground and satellite approach navigation capability”.  

Unfortunately, not, but only a few realize that. 

Every time there is an excuse, while I understand that MSFS is a new platform with so many challenges and they want to be profitable I wonder why not fixing what is so past due on previous releases and so important. 

In real life we use this LNAV/VNAV probably 90% to 95% during the duration of a flight, I would think that it is quite important to have it fixed after such a long time. 

I’m afraid that he’s 100% correct when he says that “For 99% of users the change will be practically invisible.” 

7 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Installing the iFly now, prompted to run "ReadBGL" during install, any clues on what that is?

Cheers, Rob.

Hi Rob

This is what the installation instructions say

 - The installer will run automatically.

-  Follow the installer prompts and the base version of the software will be installed.

-  When the installer is finished, the iFly ReadBGL tool will pop up.  Select “ALL” and then run the tool.  This reads all scenery files to create airport maps for the Electronic Flight Bag (EFB).

-  RE-BOOT your system.  This ensures that the iFly software is correctly initialized.

-  Run the iFly Configuration Tool (shortcut installs on the desktop) to apply aircraft options and load fuel, pax and cargo.

-  Start P3D v5.2+, set the Scenario screen to display on startup, and select the desired iFly Jets Advanced Series model.

 

/Thomas

13 hours ago, micstatic said:

But todays news is not encouraging at all for us airline flyers. 

Indeed - if one is leaning towards Boeing aircraft. But in other news, the latest update on the Fenix A320 for MSFS is absolutely stunning: https://fenixsim.com/2021/12/08/feature-review-dev-update-08dec2021/

Take a look at the 50+ minutes Electrical Feature Review, definitely on par with the FSLabs offerings - if not surpassing.

17 hours ago, DChockey08 said:

If there's one thing I've learned in this hobby, it's that you get the features that are present at released. Nothing is guaranteed in terms of upgrades or new features or even compatibility with future versions of the simulator. Market conditions change and production sometimes takes much longer than expected. 

You sir have hit a nail on the head, and it is a lesson I must remind myself off as I continue on with simming.  I like to think positively about developers and their stated intentions about updates and fixes, but the more I look at the track records of some these entities, I wonder how some have such good reputations.  It seems like dropping the ball and never finishing or updating products is rampant in the business.  That's too bad, but I'll try to remember not to get my expectations up; to put my $ with developers that do what they say they'll do; and only buy products I'm happy with in their current state.

52 minutes ago, Iadbound said:

You sir have hit a nail on the head, and it is a lesson I must remind myself off as I continue on with simming.  I like to think positively about developers and their stated intentions about updates and fixes, but the more I look at the track records of some these entities, I wonder how some have such good reputations.  It seems like dropping the ball and never finishing or updating products is rampant in the business.  That's too bad, but I'll try to remember not to get my expectations up; to put my $ with developers that do what they say they'll do; and only buy products I'm happy with in their current state.

Well would you be willing to pay a monthly or yearly fee for software support?

This is a key thing.. most people (specially on this industry of DLC, aka flying simulators) perceive software as a 1 time purchase with endless amount of support (unlimited support enquires and unlimited updates for any platform changes) for the entire life time of the product.. and under such business model, developers rely on "new" sales in order to keep the business running. And several attempts from some vendors to move towards the support contract business model, well simply put failed since nobody was willing to pay for that.. the only 3rd party vendor working very well under this scheme is Navigraph, and that is because they provide a "service" rather than a product that you own, so people perceive it differently.

Sales for P3D are dreadful at the moment.. the worse since 2019 when the news about MSFS were available at E3, so what's is happening then?.. this is the current situation, even when some people are very upset with MSFS and they are firing their P3D simulator once again, it seems they are holding their investment for P3D. I imagine from those users, there is a proportion of them that are waiting for MSFS to fix the latest issues and in hence they are holding all their investing on 3rd parties addons for P3D.. while another proportion might have decided to stay for now on P3D.. the size of each proportion is impossible for me to know at this time.. but what I do know is that regardless of the situation, they are not buying add-on's for P3D as they used to, therefore with the current number of new "sales" for P3D my business would collapse very quickly if I don't do something..

A business is a business at the end of the day, and either you bring income or the business is finished.. now everyone that knows me well enough and long enough understand I do support P3D 100% and also how much I love my customers, so I am not abandoning P3D and nither any type of my customer base.. but I am being forced to shift my business (more news soon :wink), this is required as otherwise I would have to close doors.. and I am not a quieter..

So do I blame PMDG for this move? absolutely not.. we all have to realise the reality of the market environment at the moment.. 3rd party developers are following and adapting to what you guys are doing.. the decisions being taken are not "unilateral".. keep that in mind.

Regards,

S.

Edited December 9, 20214 yr by simbol

2 hours ago, SierraDelta said:

if not surpassing.

That will be REALLY HARD. 😉
But not impossible of course.

5 minutes ago, simbol said:

Well would you be willing to pay a monthly or yearly fee for software support?

Simbol,

Funny you should mention a subscription model.  I posted over in Discord about this saying: "Also, charge something for big updates then. They did for the 777 expansion and they promised a VC update for it. If it takes 3 years to release it or they drop it, it’s PMDG’s prerogative. It’s not a very customer friendly move but so be it. And I know I’m in the minority on this, but I would be fine with a subscription model if PMDG committed to regular and meaningful updates."