Totally agree with a Ray. Sadly, this thread reflects just how Avsim has changed over the last few years.

John Rooum

 

...then let's prepare for a couple of additional virtual funerals and save some tears for FlyTampa, FlightBeam, JetStream Design, Digital Design, Simwings, etc. when their time would come 🙂 

The irony is that all those MSFS "easy money" on the scenery products is a direct result of the P3D development. If Gary couldn't deal with the P3D new developments, I can only wish him good luck to survive (as a developer) and deliver with buggy MSFS SDK. 

 

7 minutes ago, G-YMML1 said:

...then let's prepare for a couple of additional virtual funerals and save some tears for FlyTampa, FlightBeam, JetStream Design, Digital Design, Simwings, etc. when their time would come 🙂 

The irony is that all those MSFS "easy money" on the scenery products is a direct result of the P3D development. If Gary couldn't deal with the P3D new developments, I can only wish him good luck to survive (as a developer) and deliver with buggy MSFS SDK. 

 

Well his Jersey for MSFS is great and ages beyond what he was able to deliver in P3D.  Where did he say he "couldn't deal" with P3D developments, this is his choice, not because he isn't capable of doing something in P3D, he can deliver higher fidelity in less time with greater financial return.  How dare he... .  What MSFS SDK scenery bugs are you referring to that he would require luck to deal with? 

Nice of you to wish him luck though...   

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by psolk

Shame, I was hoping to see more airports in the HD Line - in particular was hoping for HD Versions of EGSS & EGPK for my cargo network.

Hope they will come back at some point, more than happy to open my wallet if they do.

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by SimeonWilbury

Kind of expected, after a lot of devs have already jumped ship. 

Likely we will have to prepare to stay a year or two without frequent mayor releases. Luckily, we still have a lot of planes and airports on v5 to keep us entertained until then.

I remember we had the same kind of discussions when we were still using FS9, reluctant to "upgrade" to FSX. However, the timeline of developers leaving FS9 one after another was slower. Personally I straight jumped from FS9 to P3D V3 once LM had "refined" FSX. 

MSFS is also easier to run on todays hardware, than FSX was back then. Hopefully Asobo will fix MSFS bugs, or the Asobo updates die out and the community fixes them somehow. Then we might be able to finally jump from v5. 

Or v6 is such a step up that the devs come back (unlikely, but who knows?). All speculation really... If P3D is not commercially viable, only devs with a passion might continue releasing for this sim, and then likely it will be freeware or donationware. 

good luck to him, it happens , lets hope orbyx and others bring some more good UK scenery to the table in the future 

Gary can't really seem to catch a break recently, I remember when he stopped X-Plane development it was either "Who?" or it's just a conversion of FSX scenery, sucks anyways.

Personally I don't use a lot of UK2000 scenery, as the Xtreme series where most of the scenery is, is usually no newer than 2016 and is as old as 2012. However his HD scenery has shown how much he has improved. I can see some of the frustrations he has been having with the SDK, however I don't think it should be used as a point as other developers haven't had much complaints about the SDK in terms of bugs and such. 

Flight simulation market is quite complex, made by various kind of customers.

MSFS 2020 is a eye-candy game, designed and tailored for desktop users, aimed to give you an amazing entertainment. Dot.

P3D is a semi-professional environment thought to satisfy the complexity and realism of a "simulation of reality". Flight schools and FTO think at P3D as a potential , powerful and affordable device for training and skills practice. Home cockpit builders don't even think to switch to MSFS for our systems....

Two different markets, that's all. Desktop users are a more attractive audience ? Maybe, but I'd be very careful..

Maurizio

I already have UK2000 Liverpool and Manchester.  I ordered Isle of Man and Heathrow today.  I love their scenery and it's on sale today.  Great prices.

Stan

Unless fs2020 is able to surpass the depth of p3d in all areas rather than just scenery and looks eg game ish ground handling, camera, controls, ai, atc, weather, sdk for aircraft systems etc this is going to be a short term high from the casual gamers that will wear off of the sim after 2-3 years like any other game no matter what because there is not much game things to do in a sim, then the devs will be back to p3d. If not then long term simmers will be moving to fs2020 only for the better if it manages to pull it off. So no need to panic I guess.

I think his EGGW is great, although has a very few minor issues sometimes. So thanks for giving my Court Line fleet a home. Luton is a quirky little airport and I love going up the hill and doing that tight turnaround at the end of the runway. 

3 hours ago, him225 said:

...eg game ish ground handling

I'm curious what you find so authentic in P3D ground handling? This is usually an area where P3D receives lots of criticism from rw pilots.

Edited December 16, 20214 yr by SAS443

2 hours ago, SAS443 said:

I'm curious what you find so authentic in P3D ground handling? This is usually an area where P3D receives lots of criticism from rw pilots.

It certainly doesn't offer all the real world options. The lack of a tow-in feature for gates is sorely lacking in GSX, whenever I take a 747 into Novosibirsk I have to awkwardly pull up alongside the parking spaces and warp myself into the correct position - hardly the most realistic of ground ops!

No experience with MSFS so can't comment on any comparisons

12 hours ago, arwasairl said:

Gary can't really seem to catch a break recently, I remember when he stopped X-Plane development it was either "Who?" or it's just a conversion of FSX scenery, sucks anyways.

Personally I don't use a lot of UK2000 scenery, as the Xtreme series where most of the scenery is, is usually no newer than 2016 and is as old as 2012. However his HD scenery has shown how much he has improved. I can see some of the frustrations he has been having with the SDK, however I don't think it should be used as a point as other developers haven't had much complaints about the SDK in terms of bugs and such. 

As far as I am aware, the difference for Gary's development work in MSFS when compared to P3D is the speed at which something can be done. Whether there are any limitations in the MSFS SDK when compared to the P3D one is not clear from his comments, but obviously he finds overall development in MSFS to be more convenient for his requirements.

EDIT: Updated information from Gary regarding this.....

https://www.uk2000scenery.net/forum/index.php?topic=273.0

Edited December 16, 20214 yr by Christopher Low

Gary always used his own development tools, which didn't involve utilising some of the newer SDK/PDK functionality.  Perhaps this bespoke workflow was what actually held him back in some ways, I don't know.  Doesn't really matter because it's his choice, and we should respect that.  Even if some of the airports get a bit long in the tooth, the long held adherence to backwards compatibility should mean they remain useable for a long time to come.

His point about ease of development inside the sim is a strong one that LM would do well to reflect on, and quickly.