When I used the word "gamification" earlier I was merely referring to the fact that people are angry that there are entertainment features that are being implemented into the sim at the expense of graphical or performance updates. Often the default complain revolves around the sim being accessible to consoles in addition to PC's and perceived sacrafices (real or otherwise) that are being made to achieve this end. However, I don't see any evidence of these concessions occuring, on the contrary I think ASOBO has hinted at them being able to achieve some of the requested features by using an updated engine. I mean just look at their initial press release yesterday on the MSFS 2024 product...

"...designed to take advantage of the latest technologies in simulation, cloud, machine learning, graphics and gaming to create the most sophisticated, immersive and awe-inspiring flight simulator of all time. To achieve this unprecedented level of accuracy, Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 is powered by the significantly evolved Asobo Studio engine."

Again, rather than getting one another all worked up about something that we know minimal information about based off of 1 trailer, lets wait and see what ASOBO has to say and then pass judgement when we have a full picture of the implications of this new iteration of the sim. I think Jeff Favigano had a great trailer breakdown with lots to be excited about

I will say that its important to critique ASOBO's handling of this marketing approach. I think their marketing and PR team needs some serious training and guidance moving forward as much of the excitement was lost on the broader community due to a lack of clarity.

Edited June 12, 20232 yr by Bt103504

1 hour ago, lwt1971 said:

Whatever was shown in this teaser trailer was meant for the XBox gaming showcase event, and ok so it focused on missions type activities which could be called "gamification" or not. But regardless, how do we know at this point that core simulator features/fixes *have* taken a back seat? How is it obvious that API support has taken a backseat since it can't be used by XBox? Admittedly all we have now is this initial teaser trailer for the XBox showcase event, we definitely need to find out more from MS/Asobo before drawing broad conclusions... I have a feeling a lot more will be clear by the end of this month and FSExpo.

After having come this far since the initial release in 2020 to keep improving the core sim and focus on aircraft/avionics fidelity and other "non-gamification" aspects, why would they stop doing that for the 2024 release since after all it's meant to be the proper successor/sequel to the sim? I just don't see them doing that. Sometimes I see a lot of folks immediately jump to the conclusion that when visuals or other stuff is improved and focused on by MS/Asobo that therefore automatically means that's at the expense of sim realism. With a huge team and deep pockets of MS, I don't think it has to be an either/or.
 

How will what we saw work on xbox? I own both PC and Xbox Series X versions and the xbox version is always teetering on collapse, especially when you load in the A310 or the PMDG or any other slightly complex plane. How are they gonna fit in trees with moving leaves, raytracing, lots of animated humans and tornadoes? The xbox will explode.

The complaint is that the brain power is being used for eye candy while the core functionality of the simulator still has basic issues (ILS, PAPI lights etc.) that fail to be addressed update after update.

If the simulator functionality was near perfect, then the rest would be fine, but it's not. It's the problem of 'mission creep', where you keep adding additional non-core items to the point where your resources no longer pay attention to the most important things.

It's a flight simulator first and a 'Johnny gets rescued from the cliff simulator' second. Or at least it should IMO.

2 minutes ago, rjquick said:

It's a flight simulator first and a 'Johnny gets rescued from the cliff simulator' second. Or at least it should IMO.

It's a trailer, so they're going to show what's new first.

I imagine they'll eventually have developer series videos like they had with 2020 showing all of the aspects of the sim.

Edited June 12, 20232 yr by Tuskin38

8 hours ago, mrbill38119 said:

FFX has indicated that is not there SF50 in their Discord.

I remembered reading this post earlier and just checked FFX's Discord... they make no statement one way or the other.

1 minute ago, rjquick said:

The complaint is that the brain power is being used for eye candy while the core functionality of the simulator still has basic issues (ILS, PAPI lights etc.) that fail to be addressed update after update.

That's just conjecture isn't it... this mantra keeps getting repeated and repeated: "since the team is showcasing features X, Y & Z that therefore means features A, B & C are not getting worked on!" ... as of now we don't know if it's an either / or (very likely not, given the progress in sim in terms of both core features and otherwise since initial release in 2020). If some pet issues aren't getting attention update after update, well then it's up to those consumers to ditch the sim or not if they are such deal breakers. Given the size of the huge team and MS's deep pockets multiple things could be worked on in parallel. Some of the key problem areas like ground handling, ATC, seasons, etc they have already acknowledged those are underdoing larger rework, and my own speculation is that these will show up in the 2024 release rather than as updates to 2020. The chances that the 2024 release will *only* be about missions and visual upgrades are very low IMO.

This moaning/groaning over the first teaser trailer (that just happened to focus on missions) is getting rather silly. At the very least, it'd be prudent for all to wait to hear more details about all what's planned for 2024, but I suspect given what we've seen so far in these forums that's not gonna happen... given that, I wish MS/Asobo would hurry up and release all the meaty details soon rather than waiting till FSExpo or whenever 🙂

5 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

That's just conjecture isn't it... this mantra keeps getting repeated and repeated: "since the team is showcasing features X, Y & Z that therefore means features A, B & C are not getting worked on!" ... as of now we don't know if it's an either / or (very likely not, given the progress in sim in terms of both core features and otherwise since initial release in 2020). If some pet issues aren't getting attention update after update, well then it's up to those consumers to ditch the sim or not if they are such deal breakers. Given the size of the huge team and MS's deep pockets multiple things could be worked on in parallel. Some of the key problem areas like ground handling, ATC, seasons, etc they have already acknowledged those are underdoing larger rework, and my own speculation is that these will show up in the 2024 release rather than as updates to 2020. The chances that the 2024 release will *only* be about missions and visual upgrades are very low IMO.

This moaning/groaning over the first teaser trailer (that just happened to focus on missions) is getting rather silly. At the very least, it'd be prudent for all to wait to hear more details about all what's planned for 2024, but I suspect given what we've seen so far in these forums that's not gonna happen... given that, I wish MS/Asobo would hurry up and release all the meaty details soon rather than waiting till FSExpo or whenever 🙂

'Pet issues' like PAPI lights. One of the most basic and important navaids at an airport.

It's like like bringing your car to mechanic because the brakes aren't working right and he gives the car back with a new racing stripe on the hood and never looks into the brake issue. When you complain, he tells you stop whining and just look at how beautiful that racing stripe is.

3 hours ago, Tuskin38 said:

Missions aren’t they only stuff being added. It’s also on an updated version of the engine 

Okay, but then fs2020 would be obsolete, no? Why keep fs2020 then? Who would wanna fly with a not-updated flight-sim-engine? For what reason?

P3D Released v1: 2010-11 - Permanent $199

v2: 2013-11 = 3 years - Permanent $199

v3: 2015-09 = 2 years 10 months Permanent $199

v4: 2017-05 = 2 years 8 months Permanent $199

v5: 2020-04 = 2 years 11 months Permanent $199

 

7 minutes ago, FPStewy said:

P3D Released v1: 2010-11 - Permanent $199

v2: 2013-11 = 3 years - Permanent $199

v3: 2015-09 = 2 years 10 months Permanent $199

v4: 2017-05 = 2 years 8 months Permanent $199

v5: 2020-04 = 2 years 11 months Permanent $199

 

behave, $59.95.

So much speculation and pontificating. Seems pretty simple:

- MSFS 2024 is a new product and will not be a free “add on pack”

- MSFS 2024 will be an evolution of the current software with some enhancements and new features that will probably never be back ported to 2020.

- MSFS 2020 will continue to be supported and will assumedly have bug fixes and other critical updates, but probably won’t get the same level of scenery and other updates.

- MSFS 2024 will use the same add ons if purchased in the marketplace. So backwards compatibility isn’t an issue.

43 minutes ago, neil0311 said:

- MSFS 2024 will use the same add ons if purchased in the marketplace.

Better saying: MSFS 2024 will use the same add-ons, because it is made to be backward compatible, but Microsoft can only possibly guarantee about the Marketplace ones. 

I have some musings wondering if this is a move to ease a transition to a subscription model.  It's the trend of almost all software.  I despise it, but expect this to be somewhere in the future. While confirmed as a new title, I haven't seen anything about pricing and sales model.

8 minutes ago, ESzczesniak said:

I have some musings wondering if this is a move to ease a transition to a subscription model.  It's the trend of almost all software.  I despise it, but expect this to be somewhere in the future. While confirmed as a new title, I haven't seen anything about pricing and sales model.

Lol, because it just got announced yesterday! Give them some time. I too wouldn't announce price points until I further elaborated on my product and produced a litany of reasons as to why someone should invest in my product. As mentioned before patience is a virtue, give them some time to showcase the other features of the sim. I reasonably wouldn't expect that granular level of detail until pre-orders go live which I would estimate wouldn't be until ~6 months prior to launch.

13 minutes ago, ESzczesniak said:

I have some musings wondering if this is a move to ease a transition to a subscription model.  It's the trend of almost all software.  I despise it, but expect this to be somewhere in the future. While confirmed as a new title, I haven't seen anything about pricing and sales model.

Maybe taking in account that there is a new version each three years, the subscription model already exists, the Xbox Game Pass, if there is a good offer monthly like in the past, maybe is cheap than to buy the Deluxe, if the Deluxe is in the Game Pass included, I don´t know. I hope the two ways of purchase coexists.