23 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

I'm also hoping that given the "school of hard knocks" learning they've gone thru with the 737 development and the EFB, that the 777 roll-out will be all about the aircraft and none of the drama 🙂

Despite the issues I have with PMDG, I really hope they smash the 777 out of the park. The people who stick with them deserve an exceptional product after more than a year and a half of "progress is being made".

As the monopoly developer of quality modern Boeing aircraft, a product that delivers on its promise is very much needed. If it does, the positive attention will reignite interest from casual users in the sim, which can only benefit us all.

 

Edited October 21, 20232 yr by F737MAX

5 minutes ago, Aamir said:

lol

"If I say something enough, it will become true!" - Emi

8 minutes ago, Aamir said:

lol

What did you folks do to this poor bloke? (joke).

 

11 minutes ago, Aamir said:

lol

Can we call that coming full circle and a half then?   LOL.

2 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

Sigh.. Mr "737 NG Driver" once again seems insistent on doing himself (and maybe PMDG by association) no favors at all, by bringing Fenix into it like this:
https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/267982-interesting-news-community-needs-clarification?p=267984#post267984
How many updates have we gotten from other developers over their development time? Fenix left us in the dark for 8 months at a time and even now nobody knows how their IAE development is progressing. All we know is that they postponed the IAE release because apparently their technology was so far advanced that they wanted to integrate it into the CFMs as well... and now that "more advanced than expected tech" leads to more delays?


In any case Mathijs' answer was actually more helpful and clarified the situation.. there is a lot of overblown rhetoric out there around this whole PMDG thing, and perhaps some of the comms coming out of PMDG and the way some on their team handle criticism doesn't help the situation at all.. Personally I actually am interested in whatever RSR and PMDG have to say, even if it's not meaty enough or doesn't give tangible previews and dates, since what RSR does offer (at least to me) are insights into how things are going in their development journey and how he and the team are feeling about things etc etc (all of which I find interesting). Those who seem to get triggered by RSR/PMDG always have that very handy and easy ability/choice to not read their updates 🤷‍♂️. In any case I hope the flight sim community will focus on the products that keep coming out of PMDG in the future rather than specific personalities on that team :s. I'm also hoping that given the "school of hard knocks" learning PMDG have gone thru with the 737 development and the EFB, that the 777 roll-out will be all about the aircraft and none of the drama 🙂
 

Funny to me how he brings into his defense a team that has clearly demonstrated their products from initial introduction to release with SEVERAL media. Yet this glorious tablet we can't even see a full screenshot 2-weeks after we were “ready to release.”

I remember clearly when the A320 was introduced we had several blog posts, loaded with images. Several videos with complete demonstrations of the product. Then on release, a customer-friendly price point. When the IAE was delayed, we got several updates explaining why. We now know it was because the main developer behind the IAE engine model recoding was trying to survive because of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.  We all should have been that guy's main priority at that time. 

He wants to say that PMDG has been “transparent” in their communication. No, they enjoy teasing, then get mad when we are annoyed that they strong us along with literally nothing to show for it. I remember last year we had a “close to testing and beta” period and that “we should start seeing screenshots with functionality soon.” What do we get? A blurry, corner shot of what appears to be a takeoff calculator. Posted by the person who has demonstrated the most narcissistic behavior in the community for more than 20 years. 

Honestly, NGDriver Kok and RSR need to start pointing their thumb at themselves instead of their finger at others who are actually communicating and engaging with the community. Wankers is what they are. 

Meh. All of this is childish and petty.  They make fake planes for us to fly. Some of you are literally complaining about a simulator....

Threshold is hardly news to begin with. That article seemed inflammatory and childish to begin with. It's like the children who complained about the .to site "stealing" a plane that was freeware to begin with. It creates a narrative that people have trouble dispelling. It's said so often that people believe it.

I have many PMDG products and yeah.... they're not perfect. Their plane doesn't have a tablet and people are losing their flippin minds over a simulated planes... simulated tablet....

It's sad.

 

Also, this "editor in chief" wasn't banned in the first place. Threshold is trolling. If PMDG bans you it's because you're acting like a punk. If you ask questions, they don't ban you.

Edited October 21, 20232 yr by Sonosusto

1 hour ago, Sonosusto said:

If PMDG bans you it's because you're acting like a punk. If you ask questions, they don't ban you.

Nah it's more in-between. Asking questions, doesn't get you banned, correct. But criticising does.
If in politics or in an airline or in a company, criticism is what leads to progress, and forbidding criticism leads to doom.

All very salty this.
 

I have opinions but all I want to say is that I love PMDG and Fenix for the quality they produce for us who enjoy MSFS.

They both have slightly different ways of going about their business with regards to communication, I see neither as wrong or right.

2 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

Nah it's more in-between. Asking questions, doesn't get you banned, correct. But criticising does.
If in politics or in an airline or in a company, criticism is what leads to progress, and forbidding criticism leads to doom.

It's depending what, where and how you are criticizing something: I was a military/fighter sim pilot and sometimes i'm interested in the fighters that sometimes appear in FS20 like the FlyingIron Me109. But I saw a lot of modeling errors there, like the rudder, the air intake, the nose, the gear, etc, I was thinking that showing these problems in a dedicated discussion in the official FS20 forum could bring to some improvements and interest around this iconic airplane. But I was wildly attacked by few screaming devils because in their opinion that airplane was perfect. Generally speaking I see that the people don't like criticism, except when you are part of a wolfpack.

1 hour ago, Claudius_ said:

It's depending what, where and how you are criticizing something: I was a military/fighter sim pilot and sometimes i'm interested in the fighters that sometimes appear in FS20 like the FlyingIron Me109. But I saw a lot of modeling errors there, like the rudder, the air intake, the nose, the gear, etc, I was thinking that showing these problems in a dedicated discussion in the official FS20 forum could bring to some improvements and interest around this iconic airplane. But I was wildly attacked by few screaming devils because in their opinion that airplane was perfect. Generally speaking I see that the people don't like criticism, except when you are part of a wolfpack.

You were not ‘wildly attacked’, you made some slightly ludicrous observations and gave  examples of what were actually different models of the aircraft concerned because ‘YouTube’.

When this was pointed out you declared you were a photographer and ‘aircraft designer’ and therefore your opinion had to be correct.

People do indeed have an annoying habit of calling out BS when they see it….

15 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

Sigh.. Mr "737 NG Driver" once again seems insistent on doing himself (and maybe PMDG by association) no favors at all, by bringing Fenix into it like this:
https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/267982-interesting-news-community-needs-clarification?p=267984#post267984
How many updates have we gotten from other developers over their development time? Fenix left us in the dark for 8 months at a time and even now nobody knows how their IAE development is progressing. All we know is that they postponed the IAE release because apparently their technology was so far advanced that they wanted to integrate it into the CFMs as well... and now that "more advanced than expected tech" leads to more delays?


In any case Mathijs' answer was actually more helpful and clarified the situation.. there is a lot of overblown rhetoric out there around this whole PMDG thing, and perhaps some of the comms coming out of PMDG and the way some on their team handle criticism doesn't help the situation at all.. Personally I actually am interested in whatever RSR and PMDG have to say, even if it's not meaty enough or doesn't give tangible previews and dates, since what RSR does offer (at least to me) are insights into how things are going in their development journey and how he and the team are feeling about things etc etc (all of which I find interesting). Those who seem to get triggered by RSR/PMDG always have that very handy and easy ability/choice to not read their updates 🤷‍♂️. In any case I hope the flight sim community will focus on the products that keep coming out of PMDG in the future rather than specific personalities on that team :s. I'm also hoping that given the "school of hard knocks" learning PMDG have gone thru with the 737 development and the EFB, that the 777 roll-out will be all about the aircraft and none of the drama 🙂
 

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/pmdg-737-for-msfs/268013-is-icing-in-the-air-implemented?pp=268055#post268065 No favours on this thread either to be honest.

4 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/pmdg-737-for-msfs/268013-is-icing-in-the-air-implemented?pp=268055#post268065 No favours on this thread either to be honest.

Yikes

2 hours ago, Claudius_ said:

It's depending what, where and how you are criticizing something: I was a military/fighter sim pilot and sometimes i'm interested in the fighters that sometimes appear in FS20 like the FlyingIron Me109. But I saw a lot of modeling errors there, like the rudder, the air intake, the nose, the gear, etc, I was thinking that showing these problems in a dedicated discussion in the official FS20 forum could bring to some improvements and interest around this iconic airplane. But I was wildly attacked by few screaming devils because in their opinion that airplane was perfect. Generally speaking I see that the people don't like criticism, except when you are part of a wolfpack.

Yeah that's pretty much the internet, I guess. I must add however that I do feel when devs deal for 20 years with those internet crowd dynamics (which are often NOT giving factual and constructive criticism but instead unleashing their inner evil within the anonimity of the internet) and end up just banning anything that makes a beep. I think we can see that very well between PMDG (who are a long time in the business) and Fenix (who are new). Aamir already shows some signs of that fatigue. I'm 100% sure he wouldn't have answered "lol" a year ago. This is not a criticism, by the way, as said it's a creeping process and a man has to be extremely resilient to fight against that "inner change".

With all that said, when a company ends up surrendering to it and just bans any sort of criticism, they are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Any chance everyone can stop bickering like children and share any updates they may have posted?

Edited October 21, 20232 yr by mryan75

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

You were not ‘wildly attacked’, you made some slightly ludicrous observations and gave  examples of what were actually different models of the aircraft concerned because ‘YouTube’.

When this was pointed out you declared you were a photographer and ‘aircraft designer’ and therefore your opinion had to be correct.

People do indeed have an annoying habit of calling out BS when they see it….

If you intend support your reason with bad words, is your choice. And I'm free to show when a "product" is not well made like that FI Me109 (not to mention the Spit IX),