25 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I have GoFlight units and with the aircraft I fly they have been programmed to operate many functions using Pollypot software. To achieve the same in any other sim requires a lot of work to achieve the same end result.

I use AIG for Ai and again, lots of work on the BGLs to assign NO PAINTs to other aircraft and to add missing airports to the Ai Companion utility.

I am a former P3D user, with many GF units programmed in Pollypot.

Ive made the jump to MSFS, and programming the GF units in Pollypot in MSFS is just as easy, and should you ever want to try out GF with MSFS, I'll provide you with any programming assistance you may want.

 

I also used AIG & AI Companion in P3D, and likewise, was easy to use these with MSFS.

@c912039, appreciate the offer. If the desire was there to switch I would have done it by now. But it isn’t. I’m capable of programming units, it’s more the time involved than the complexity.

13 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

Bruce Artwick? Kudos to him for making the first flightsim back in the 1970s. But if he wouldn't have done it, someone else would have done it a few months or years later.

Thanks for this, you spared me from posting the same!

I've been simming for 20+ years. I started with FS98, then went in deeper with FS9. I skipped FSX altogether, then jumped straight into P3Dv4, and was amazed at what it could do and how it looked. When the first previews of MSFS came along, I found them spectacular, but was skeptical and cautious of how it would really work in terms of performance and gameplay.

I ended up buying MSFS the week the Fenix was released. I took this step as a cautious approach, as I was pretty content with P3D and had a serious investment in terms of addons.

The result? From the first day I launched MSFS I don't think I ever launched P3D again - that's how impactful the experience was for me.

In the flight sim communities we have an unhealthy habit of focusing on the negative. Yes, some updates have been worse than expected, ATC still needs lots of work and some other things.

But we forget many amazing things about MSFS - how good it runs out of the box (gone is the endless tweaking, unless you have unreal expectations regarding your rig), how good it looks, how it made scenery development and aircraft painting easier, leading to a huge boost in development, and many other things. And MSFS2024 seems to be a step in the right direction, improving many things

So yes, Jorg and his team deserve praise - not only have they been developing a fabulous sim, they have been balancing that with keeping it profitable so that MS keeps its resources behind it. And that is essential if we want it to keep growing, it needs to be successful, not gatekeeping and becoming a niche hobby. In that respect, I think they have been doing great work. 

On 6/23/2024 at 3:02 AM, Sky_Pilot071 said:

Jorg and Seb ar Germans.  In other words nothing is good enough,  Ask my mother.  lol

sp

Er … Seb is French (like the rest of Asobo), no?

 

My current grip with Microsoft is the woeful bandwidth they allocate to my region. Speedtest says I’m good to go, Microsoft … thinks for a good while … then a little more, and eventually can’t respond because it’s forgotten what the question was. Sometimes funny, mostly infuriating. 

 

14 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

Bruce Artwick? Kudos to him for making the first flightsim back in the 1970s. But if he wouldn't have done it, someone else would have done it a few months or years later.

Albert Einstein? (widely held to be one of the greatest and most influential scientists of all time).

Kudos to him for developing the theory of relativity. But if Albert wouldn't have done it, someone else would have done it a few months or years later.

Isaac Newton? Kudos to him too.

 

it's all relative.

Edited June 24, 20241 yr by turbomax

41 minutes ago, lupedelupe said:

Er … Seb is French (like the rest of Asobo), no?

We have been over this, in this thread.

He is not.

4 minutes ago, turbomax said:

 

Albert Einstein? (widely held to be one of the greatest and most influential scientists of all time).

Kudos to him for developing the theory of relativity. But if Albert wouldn't have done it, someone else would have done it a few months or years later.

Isaac Newton? Kudos to him too.

 

it's all relative.

SIR Isaac Newton if you please!

You're absolutely right. It is all relative. Another example is George Stephenson who was known as the 'Father of the Railways'. He pioneered rail transport with the invention of the steam locomotive (as opposed to stationary steam engine) and went on to develop the first public railway in the world, the Manchester and Liverpool Railway in 1829. We've all heard of Stephenson and his Rocket. 

And yet the real inventor of the steam locomotive was Richard Trevithick (1771 – 1833). He is credited with the first practical steam railway locomotive that pulled carriages as early as 1804 which was some 25 years before Stephenson adapted the steam locomotive into a commercial success with his Rocket.   

So very much like Bruce Artwick and Jorg Neuman these were men of their times. As is almost always the case, the very first inventor had huge barriers to crash through as they experimented in completely uncharted territory with little or no resource to turn to. The fact they achieved a result, even if not the prettiest,  laid the foundation for others to follow with different skills, resources, technologies and in better positions to make the invention fit for purpose and commercially successful.

The step change from FSX (and other flight simulators) to FS2020,  the technologies that have been released to this platform and the commercial success it has clearly become have all occurred under the guidance, leadership and management of Jorg Neuman. I'm more than happy to say that makes Jorg the George Stephenson of Flight Simulation. And that really is quite an historic moment in time.

But as @Ray Proudfoot has been at pains to point out Bruce Artwick laid the foundations for the concept of flying on a PC when he created a 'A versatile computer generated dynamic flight display'. While this was purchased by Microsoft, Bruce Artwicks invention and creativity spawned the whole genre of flight simulation of which Microsoft is only one (albeit the most successful) just like Trevithick's inventions spawned the railways of the world. It would be a disservice to not recognise that Bruce Artwick's passion was the same one you and I have today and I would be very surprised if even Jorg didn't pay homage to him. As I say, both great men of their times.  

Cheers

 

Terry 

7 hours ago, s0cks said:

Proof is in the pudding. I know rotorcraft enthusiasts who don't think too much of MSFS physics. Same with gliders. Same with the ground handling. I guess also those who aren't using Windows PC. Each to their own.

Proof will definitely be in the pudding. We already know they're improving general flight dynamics physics for their CFD tech, and making it easier for devs to develop more precise aircraft geometry for FMs, etc: https://youtu.be/a6riRXgRsCU?t=1206 (I'm sure we'll get a deep dive in coming weeks/months on all what they're doing in the aerodynamics area, among others).

Re: gliders they did seem to have a focus on them even in this FS Expo presentation (starting here https://youtu.be/a6riRXgRsCU?t=4545) where they're partnering with Got Friends to bring more complex glider avionics and flight computers to the base sim and add the Stemme S12G, they're also striving to model all gliderports on earth.. so if they're doing all that in the glider space, one would think they'll also be improving thermals modelling and glider physics.

Re: heli physics, that was one area where they said they're using Andrey (Petrovich) Solomykin around areas such as governors, turbines, multi-rotor support, etc (in a past Q&A). Rotorcraft enthusiasts/experts like Helisimmer (Sergio) in reviewing the initial implementation of helicopter physics vs multiple other sims came away impressed: https://www.helisimmer.com/articles/best-helicopter-simulator-2023 (for flight dynamics he narrowed it down to the best three sims of which MSFS was one, and also said it's not far apart from the best).

Re: ground handling, that has been revamped and properly modelled in MSFS 2024, and partially backported to MSFS 2020 SU15.. at least in MSFS 2020 aircraft devs need to actually take advantage of the new FM parameters, which devs like iniBuilds have done in their A300 as they showed recently here: https://youtu.be/N4cxNccH66U?t=1318 
 

Edited June 24, 20241 yr by lwt1971

Wow, this topic of who should deserve more credit, Bruce Atwick or Jorg Neumann, is still ongoing 😄

I didn't want to wade in, but I hope we can agree that both deserve credit for their accomplishments!  It was Alexander Graham Bell that is credited for inventing the telephone.  And then it was Martin Cooper who was credited for inventing the first mobile phone.  And then in 2007, when the mobile phone industry thought that stuff like e-mail, browsing the web, etc, was best done on a Blackberry, Steve Jobs came and showed the world the IPhone.  Steve Jobs created a new revolution in the mobile phone industry, a revolution that has lasted today (if you look at the design of most of the mobile phones we use today in 2024, it's pretty much based off the IPhone design from 2007).

Perhaps Bruce Atwick can be likened to Alexander Graham Bell and Martin Cooper.  While Jorg Neumann can be likened to Steve Jobs, for revolutionizing flight simulation in 2020 (I also think Seb deserves some credit too).  Alexander Graham Bell, Martin Cooper, and Steve Jobs have their place in history. As does Bruce Atwick and Jorg Neumann (and as one poster earlier mentioned, Jorg Neumann's history is still being written).

Edited June 24, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

Didn't he also come up with the Microsoft Space Simulator? A few points deducted for that I would think! 

and JET!

 

 

Edited June 24, 20241 yr by turbomax

9 hours ago, s0cks said:

Proof is in the pudding. I know rotorcraft enthusiasts who don't think too much of MSFS physics. Same with gliders. Same with the ground handling. I guess also those who aren't using Windows PC. Each to their own.

I know pilots of pretty much any category who don't think too much of computer flight simulators in general. 

There will always be someone who's dissatisfied about any product, and it's entirely irrelevant. 

Edited June 24, 20241 yr by Abriael

A lot of what we have seen last weekend was somehow on his agenda long time ago. (liveries, charts, …) It just takes much more time then we would think. Years, not Months.

He said that MSFS will have the best weather model ever, so it will come. The question is just when. 

I would not be surprised if he will come up with a new partnership in the next months. Not that anything spectacular can be expected for November but I am sure we will see huge progress on the long run. 

I appreciate Jorg and am glad someone like him is in charge of the Flight Simulator project in general.  It's important to have someone passionate about the hobby in charge of something like this, to make sure it stays on course and focused on the things that matter to simmers.

I think calling him "the biggest name in flight sim history", even if it were true, is just flashing neon troll-bait.  And Jorg himself would probably wince at such superlatives.