1 hour ago, sd_flyer said:

In my opinion yes, 777 is top of the line PMDG product

Appreciate it. Any specific reasons you feel it's their best work?

59 minutes ago, blueshark747 said:

757-787 all just start to blur into the same one boring plane for me.

 

This is my concern.

Across all the major sims, I have all the modern-ish Boeings, from Classic 732/722 through 747-8i.

But a LOT of time has transpired since many of those were released, so it's possible the 777 is worth the spend if it's raised the bar.

 

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

 

Did PMDG substantially raise the bar with their 777, and if so, how...? Like, is it worth the extra coin if I already have the 737, or is it just a bigger Boeing?

 

No they absolutely did not, there is so much about the product, other than the visual model, that is recycled from the fsx version.  They introduced nothing new or groundbreaking systems wise (think fenix fan blade icing etc.).  The biggest new feature is the high resolution cabin and i guess visible tire wear.  That being said, its still a great product, a great 777 simulation, and I really enjoy it because I love widebody boeing airliners.

I have about 25 hours on the 777 now, and haven't flown my 737-800, since I got the 777.  It does everything well. 

17 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

This is my concern.

Across all the major sims, I have all the modern-ish Boeings, from Classic 732/722 through 747-8i.

But a LOT of time has transpired since many of those were released, so it's possible the 777 is worth the spend if it's raised the bar.

 

Just a thought. If you’re looking for a wide body, you would do well to look at TDFIs just released MD-11.  It turns out she is very much the belle of the ball at her multi-year, crowd sourced journey debut.  IOW, performing solIdly and honestly exceeding many expectations.  Anyway for the best insight into the MD-11 check out streamer MooseStaffa’s tutorials. All available at his site and there are more than a few, here is his intro video which is more than enough to let you know if you need more or you’ve had enough. 😎

-B

 

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Let me reiterate: this question is all about the fidelity of the addon, and nothing about the IRL differences between the jets.

I.e., I don't care about range / long haul, pax count, IRL operators, Big Iron/Heavy Jet, etc., etc.

I have their 737 and am quite satisfied with it, but in terms of a heavy jet, their 747 is what I'm looking for. HOWEVER, If the 777 is big step forward in general airliner operations, my mind is open.

Did PMDG substantially raise the bar with their 777, and if so, how...? Like, is it worth the extra coin if I already have the 737, or is it just a bigger Boeing?

 

They have a strong family resemblance but enough differences to keep you on your toes 😉

Neither of them is ground-breaking in terms of fidelity or presentation imo: to me they both seem to be reasonable ports of the  FSX/P3D versions, with some gimmicky changes but few improvements (if any) that really take advantage of the new platform. 

The main (in fact, only) substantive improvement that I've noticed is that the 777 does - at long last - finally implement PMDG's version of an ARINCS-compliant LNAV. This has been a long-unfulfilled promise by PMDG for many, many years and comes very, very late - and is certainly not ground-breaking: it's something that's been around for many years in other products. But it means that - finally - their 777 can fly (eg) a curved RNP approach properly (or at least more realistically than their 737).

8 minutes ago, btacon said:

streamer MooseStaffa

Awesome username 🙂

It´s more a evolution than a revolution.

The philosofy are quite similar - so if You can fly the 737, then the 777 will not be much of challange, apart from being much larger when taxiing.

Regardin complexity, they are on the same level. The 737 has a HUD, Vertical situation display, while the 777 has the new LNAV system as well as ACARS / CPDLC and Simbrief integration, but weirdly not full GSX integration.

Edited July 5, 20241 yr by Wothan

49 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Appreciate it. Any specific reasons you feel it's their best work?

There are lot of good stuff! Great handling, WX radar/ EGPWS, intuitive EFB that can be moved to key locations when it is necessary (very thoughtful), tons of options, good frame rates. I finally enjoy long hauls in very congested airports without loosing smoothness!

I know some folks don't like sounds. Yes, I think there is room for improvement for that. But for me who spend most time inside the cockpit there sound  just background noise, so it doesn't bother as much. Besides there suppose to be sound update at se point of time 

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Awesome username 🙂

A cool guy on twitch streamer too. He seems to know what he is doing.

737 due to better sounds.

I know I've said this before but I will keep saying it as less abled simmers shouldn't be discarded by devs this way. 

IF you use their 737 and IF you use their long standing classic mouse behaviour setup of left click for down and right click for up method like I do you must be warned that PMDG have purposefully left that option out of the 777. Requests on their forums for this to be implemented have been suddenly and without resolution closed down. 

As an owner of 10 or so of their planes in fsx and the 736 and 739 in msfs this is a deal breaker for this simmer with deteriorating eyesight and finger coordination. I cannot even use cockpit knobs that have the tiny up and down arrows. Can't hardly see them let alone click them. 

Video gaming these days has seen many accessibility features added into menus to help those of us with diminishing senses and touch, I find it terribly sad that flight simming has not followed suit. Pmdg seem determined to comply with asobe default procedures rather than continue to support those who prefer and in my case NEED alternative control schemes. 

The 737 uses this classic method brilliantly. You have to copy an xml file and then you're set! 

Until this is rectified by either pmdg or a modder I will no longer buy pmdg planes. 

I'm an fcom reader so if I can't twiddle every single knob and switch like a 'boss' without pausing, zooming, click spamming and giving up then it's a fail from me. 

More than anything it's their ATTITUDE to the less abled that's upset me. It might only be a very small stand from me, not giving them my money, and it won't bankrupt them lol, but it's MY stand and I'm sticking with it. 

I'm going to edit this with a 777 bug report I made years ago in fsx. I went through the entire 777 fcom and found only ONE error in the PMDG version. Oh, how times have changed. This video is that single error! 

 

 

Edited July 6, 20241 yr by sloppysmusic
Added video to show I kinda know this plane lol

14 hours ago, blueshark747 said:

757-787 all just start to blur into the same one boring plane for me.

 

That means you do not care for any more modern aircraft Boeing or Airbus.

2 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

Requests on their forums for this to be implemented have been suddenly and without resolution closed down. 

I don't think many devs will want to encode different behaviours to what the MSFS default behaviour is.

You might want to contemplate one of the multiple Elgato Stream Deck options. Any of these (combined with appropriate software) will give you physical control of overhead panel, FMS, FMC, or radio buttons, switches and knobs, and really is rather affordable.

Alternatively, if your budget allows, there's a myriad of hardware flightdeck modules that will look and respond like their real world counterparts.

4 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

I don't think many devs will want to encode different behaviours to what the MSFS default behaviour is

Well, actually PMDG already DID with the 737 release for MSFS. They have used this exact setup for almost 2 decades. When they released the 737 it includes a pdf tutorial on how to use CLASSIC PMDG mouse behaviour that us loyal customers have used for a decade in previous sims. So all they had to do was include the same tiny xml modification to allow the 777 to work the same IF customers wanted to. They REMOVED it as a POLICY decision, not practical or cost decision. To cater for the mass market they now seem focused on they dropped the customization and individuality they were famous for.

There was a polite discussion I was involved in on the PMDG forums about this, but as soon as several people dropped in to say they would also like the option retained a 'mod' told us it was their way or the highway (my words their meaning) and immediately closed the thread without even answering the question as to whether if could be modded by a user after purchase.