7 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

Is that why you called MSFS 2024 'arcade' in the other forum?

Yep, pretty much... it's the  "War Thunder" of the Civil Flight simulators...  Nothing wrong with that, provided you give it the right use. And yet it is the flightsim I use the most these days, to play missions / activities / challenges and simulate airline flights in the Fenix, without ever dropping into Direct Law... or failling an engine ... - for that I use the other sim or Airlinetools A32x.

I avoid flying helicopters, gliders or GA props, specially aerobatic, or ww2... All of those feel too arcade for me to ba able to "live with that"...

 

Edited December 18, 20241 yr by jcomm

2 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

I'm thinking specifically of a certain hot drink spilled by someone in the USA here!

Ha! I'd forgotten all about that saga. Total proof that the legal "profession" is something of a delusional con. But I digress . . .

I have been pretty much positive about 2024. But I have to say the more I use it the more I'm aware of all its warts. I certainly don't see me buying many more addons for it, unlike 2020. The couple of airports I have added in have been a bit of a disappointment, and airports generally suffer way too much from (I guess) bad LOD settings in that stuff pops up when you're only a very short distance away. A so-called 2024-compatible upgrade to VHHH is particularly bad for this.

The PG is a combination of massively improved and utterly appalling. There is no way this is ever going to even approach the idea of the digital twin until they do something about those abominations that are the PG tree obelisks.

But then, if you head out into the wild and explore the mountains or beaches or similar, it really is a whole new world. Quite stunning. I suspect that as others have commented, 2024 will be my "low and slow only" sim, and on those rare occasions I want to see the big metal I'll be back in 2020 (which still looks pretty good to me, especially after all the tweaks I've added to it).

I'm sure (well, hopefull at least) that they'll fix all the more obvious stuff fairly soon, things like the missing pilots in the 2020 aircraft, AI without undercarriage cruising happily along the runways for takeoff, but I'm also nervous that even the good stuff may remain limited or even become more crippled by the need to fit into the Xbox world. No issues with the streaming, which was one of my major worries before getting hold of it.

Overall, for me, way more good than bad. But I absolutely agree with those folk saying it wasn't ready for launch. In many ways, it's the Windows Vista, or maybe Windows 8, of the flight sim world.

(as a postscript I should add that I only ever use free flight, and will never use any of the various other baubles.)

And as a PPS, this gets my quote of the day award! -

22 minutes ago, Stoopy said:

the cockpits have that "sneezed in" look

 

4 hours ago, jcomm said:

I think there isn't much they will be able to do about the flight dynamics, although I still have strong hopes on the new advances they mention regarding fuselage and additional aerodynamic elements being possible to get in more detail with FS 2024.

This is a very weird thing to say, given that there is a whole thread on quotes by real life pilots on how the flight dynamics have improved in MSFS 2024 from MSFS 2020:

You should probably go through that thread and read all the different quotes, many of them by real life pilots, on the improvements made to flight dynamics in MSFS 2024. I understand that you are also a real life glider pilot, but if you read the body of quotes in that thread and take the body of quotes as from many different perspectives of real life pilots, rather than a single perspective, it's quite obvious that the body of quotes is saying there is an improvement in the MSFS 2024 flight dynamics.

I think there must be some 30 different quotes, or even more than 30,  from real life pilots in that thread?

Also, on page 9 of that thread, there are several quotes from XP 12 and MSFS 2024 users who are real life pilots, who preferred MSFS 2024's flight dymamics to XP 12's flight dynamics.

Edited December 18, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

10 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

This is a very weird thing to say, given that there is a whole thread on quotes by real life pilots on how the flight dynamics have improved in MSFS 2024 from MSFS 2020:

You should probably go through that thread and read all the different quotes, many of them by real life pilots, on the improvements made to flight dynamics in MSFS 2024. I understand that you are also a real life glider pilot, but if you read the body of quotes in that thread and take the body of quotes as from many different perspectives of real life pilots, rather than a single perspective, it's quote obvious that the body of quotes is saying there is an improvement in the MSFS 2024 flight dynamics.

I think there must be some 30 different quotes, or even more than 30,  from real life pilots in that thread?

@abrams_tank, as I posted at other threads, I am really enjoying FS 2024 for the extraordinary World Scenery and some aspects of functionality, but I have to take evaluations from real world pilots with care when I still can't find, not even by far, taildraggers or tricycle with a castoring wheel, correctly modelled, requiring proper techniques based on differential braking and propwash as soon as available to control during taxi and takeoff / landing. 

AFAIK FS 2024 and the new FM which has evolved from FS 2020, still doesn't allow (from the available docs, maybe it is not yet documented ?) to model, just  as a few examples:

- a skewed vertical stabilizer;

- a skewed engine, as used for instance in many prop aircraft where the prop axis is not properly aligned with the aircraft longitudinal axis;

- ground set trim tabs

all of the above to overcome prop effects on prop aircraft.

So, when modelling aircraft, like some of those included by default with FS 2024 or addons, you really can't give their deveolepers access to these real world approaches, and properly simulate their effects on the models in the simulator.

Same applies for instance to the modelling of negative flap settings on gliders (an not only), etc...

But correct me if I'm wrong and indeed features like these are already available with the "new" FDM ?

Edited December 18, 20241 yr by jcomm

24 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Yep, pretty much... it's the  "War Thunder" of the Civil Flight simulators...

 

24 minutes ago, jcomm said:

I avoid flying helicopters, gliders or GA props, specially aerobatic, or ww2... All of those feel too arcade for me to ba able to "live with that"...

 

4 minutes ago, jcomm said:

but I have to take evaluations from real world pilots with care when I still can't find, not even by far, taildraggers or tricycle with a castoring wheel, correctly modelled, requiring proper techniques based on differential braking and propwash as soon as available to control during taxi and takeoff / landing. 

I get what you're saying. I agree on the free castoring nosewheel steering. That is horrible in MSFS. Still, personally I find the use of the word 'arcade' a bit to harsh. 'Flawed' would suit me better. In the end it is all personal preference. I have never understood the excessive praising of the FM in the other sim, because to me, for the type of flying I do, I don't see that many differences compared to the FM in MSFS 2024.

Mess is an understatement... I am suddenly getting flights where the ignition turns itself off, then the throttle, throttles down by itself. This is happening with both default and addon planes, back to 2020 for awhile.

31 minutes ago, jcomm said:

- a skewed vertical stabilizer;
- a skewed engine, as used for instance in many prop aircraft where the prop axis is not properly aligned with the aircraft longitudinal axis;
- ground set trim tabs
all of the above to overcome prop effects on prop aircraft.

So your conclusion that MSFS 2024 is "arcade" is based on the above features not being seen in the default aircraft or unrealized (yet) in any payware 2024-native prop birds (don't believe any 2024-native payware prop birds are out yet, but I could be wrong) ?? I mean sorry, but how do you expect to be taken seriously with such hyperbole? 🙂 .. I suppose this is no different to your earlier assessment that ground handling shows no improvements in 2024 🤣

The default prop birds (like the C172) show tangible and marked improvements in various flight dynamics and ground handilng aspects.. and ya, I'm going to go with IRL pilots' opinions of said birds every time, especially when there is a decidedly large majority of them saying the same thing (in that thread). Oh, and also the fact that I myself can see a definite change for the better vs 2020, especially in the area of ground handling and the ground<->air transition. Do you have for example any counter points to this particular IRL pilots detailed review of the default C172? https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/654326-msfs-2024-flight-dynamics-and-groundwater-handling-thread/page/8/#findComment-5262959

Now that said, I suppose if one were always partial towards a particular pet sim whose alleged advantages ever since MSFS 2020 released was only in flight dynamics (aside: as MSFS 2020 matured those advantages weren't all that much except for ground handling).. I suppose in this case one would keep repeating these talking points at every opportunity one got, especially with MSFS 2024 which advances the ball in flight & ground dynamics in various ways 🤷‍♂️
 

Edited December 18, 20241 yr by lwt1971

Yes, I get constant studders along with a pause every 3 seconds, unplayable.

7 hours ago, Vitold69 said:

They are not Germans but French. So - in a bottle of wine.

It's so quiet now. They have left for the Christmas vacations probably. 

Too bad they are not Germans but French, else we would have been able to enjoy a working simulator.

Jean-Jacques

3 minutes ago, Jayjay said:

Too bad they are not Germans but French, else we would have been able to enjoy a working simulator.

Jean-Jacques

The simulator is working, as I can successfully use most of the features successfully.  

"For me, MSFS 2024 is just a blurry mess—ugly colors, trees everywhere, and square polygons for buildings. I’ll be moving next week, so hopefully upgrading from a 300MB to an 800MB internet connection will improve my experience (along with better compatibility with Nvidia filters).

I am waiting till January for my new graphics card. 

My current one is not handling the DX12 only from MSFS2024  with that VRAM usage , very well.   

Pitty ,  bcs they said that I should be able to run MSFS2024 if I was able to run MSFS2020.  Yeah but bcs DX12 only I had to lower some settings to prevent those stupid stutters and FPS dropping from 40 to 10 due to VRAM full.  This was not the case in MSFS2020 with DX11 and TAA. I had quite nice 30-40 FPS .

Anyway another cons , that is preventing me to play MSFS2024 now,  is the online streaming. Some areas looks worse than from FS98 version. 

I do not know if Asobo thinks that all of us are in cities running with 1Gbit fiber.  But I am leaving in a village with either stupid crappy ADSL,  or Wifi 5Ghz ( asked so many times my provider to update to the new Wifi 6 but yeah no response ) or the last one is Starlink.     Right now I am sitting on 40Mbit WIfi 5Ghz , praying that my Internet provider will soon update to Wifi 6  , and I have as a backup 4G/5G O2 connetion with FUP 100GB data.  

So yeah barely meeting the recommended Internet speed requirements with my village Wifi.   

Anyway for now still Playing MSFS 2020 primarly and enjoying. 

WIll see in Januray how the new Graphics card will help with MSFS2024.  But I think I will give it at least time till spring to polish it.  

 

 

7 hours ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

Of course they have as all the word not allowed flack they have received (mostly inflicted on their own part) with the release of 2024 I would go on vacation too. They never forced anyone to jump on the FS2024 bandwagon so early though that is on the user as I feel no pity for them. Don't blame MS/Asobo blame yourselves for believing the hype.

 

This is utter nonsense and blaming the consumer for the lack of transparency from the developer/publisher.

Kunos is about to release Assetto Corsa Evo.  They are doing probably 10 months of very clearly messaged "Early Access."  They are documenting what will and will not work like multiplayer for example and you know what, they wont have any of the issues MS/Asobo has had.  Why?  Transparency...  My guess is it is one of the most successful early releases ever...

They aren't trying to sell something as feature complete and full production like MS/Asobo did with all the BS about backwards compatibility then prohibiting people from getting their purchases, disabling marketplace the whole 5*9's server availability and making out like there are no issues when 5 minutes in the official forums tell you something is very wrong with this release across multiple platforms.

Had they simply been transparent then yes, I agree it is on the consumer if they KNOWINGLY buy into Early access.  But that's not the case, instead they overpromised and underdelivered. 

I bet Kunos has people LINING UP for early access whereas MS/Asobo had people lining up for refunds and they brought it on themselves by selling something as production ready and feature complete when it is CLEARLY early access and they had not even done the regression testing on 2020 add-ons yet.   

MS/Asobo can learn something from Kunos...

But this NONSENSE that it is people's own fault for buying something that was sold as ready for production is nonsense.  They were told one thing and sold another, very different from the respectable and transparent process Kunos is using for what will be the worlds largest open world driving sim...

So please stop blaming the users for "believing" MS/Asobo...   

You lied to me and I believed it so it's my fault for believing it not yours for lying is what you are essentially saying...

8 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

The simulator is working, as I can successfully use most of the features successfully.  

Nice for you, at least

Jean-Jacques

As other person said already here - stability of FS2024 in the new cloud environment is the biggest issue. All the others will be sorted out.