"The MSFS 2024 is NEW!"

The 4th biggest hoax since global warming, covid and A330 Driver 

Just now, fsiscool said:

I personally believe that the "ranting" is at a level that could demotivate MS to fund future updates. MS top brass could look at the negative hyperbole and say, "why are we funding that"? That would not only be bad for a new version in the future but also for MSFS 2020.

The only thing that motivates them or demotivates them is revenue and profitability.

If the reviews are cr*p but it makes a ton of money (look at Trainsim LOL) then it will keep getting produced.  The reviews are consistently cr*p with every new Dovetail release but they keep coming...

If the reviews are cr*p and the development, operating and support costs don't turn a profit then it will be another killed product-line

I don't think that "ranting" or "rightly criticizing" where appropriate and where criticism is deserved will impact future development more than the refunds and ongoing revenue.  It is driven by the $$$$  

1 minute ago, fsiscool said:

I personally believe that the "ranting" is at a level that could demotivate MS to fund future updates. MS top brass could look at the negative hyperbole and say, "why are we funding that"? That would not only be bad for a new version in the future but also for MSFS 2020.

So we should not complain because it might upset a multi billion $ company? Don't think so. A lot of us have paid good money for the hype they were selling and it has not been met (for now).

Genuine complaints are not hyperbole. 

3 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

So you're just going off of what "other" people are saying. Got it. 

So, you blindly dive into anything without careful consideration first? Got it.

I think y’all overestimate your influence.  I think they look at broad metrics like steam scores and usage vs previous editions, and overall volume.  Do they or should they trawl through here looking at posts from what is a lot of time the same people who complain every edition? Probably not.  I wouldn’t say even that this launch was worse than 2020s, it just had more heightened expectations before it.

1 minute ago, Christopher Low said:

So, you blindly dive into anything without careful consideration first? Got it.

A sim, that has no meaningful impact on my life as a whole, and isn’t a potential financial ruin, or threat to my safety?  Absolutely.

Just now, Christopher Low said:

So, you blindly dive into anything without careful consideration first? Got it.

Don't forget when the same reviewers say the C172 is improved in 2024 it is Gospel and we can ignore what the real world pilots here are saying because a real world pilot on youtube said it... 

Some people only listen when it's convenient apparently.  😉  

20 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

I think y’all overestimate your influence.  I think they look at broad metrics like steam scores and usage vs previous editions, and overall volume.  Do they or should they trawl through here looking at posts from what is a lot of time the same people who complain every edition? Probably not.  I wouldn’t say even that this launch was worse than 2020s, it just had more heightened expectations before it.

I would disagree solely on the release aspect.  Agree on the influence we "think" we have 😉

2020 was released to PC first, then VR, then Console almost a full year later.  It was also completely revolutionary in a number of ways including the first "online" flight sim experience for a lot of us.  That alone was a show stopper for a lot of existing P3D users, it was a monumental shift.

2024 was released en masse causing a complete outage of the services at launch but it builds off of 4 years of experiences and lessons learned with 2020 so I personally expected them to take some of those lessons learned and improve on the experience however that doesn't seem to be the case.   Not with the launch, not with Marketplace, not with VR, not with the UI, it's almost like they learned nothing from 2020 that made things better in 2024 relative to the launch.   Not making a broad stroke comment on the sim itself, it obviously looks significantly better just talking the launch which arguably skewed a lot of the metrics you mentioned to the negative...  That could be detrimental to all of us.  

That "is" what is worrying to me.  MS has killed flightsim before after arguably 30 years of it being their most successful gaming franchise.  "If" (hypothetically) they blew the launch bad enough it impacted the long term financial success of the platform and the MS execs pull the plug 1.  It sucks for all of us and 2.  it sucks for all of us!   

So as a simmer, I want to see 2024 succeed. 

As a consumer I am not satisfied with what I paid for "yet"  but I similarly hope they will get there.  It took 2020 2 years to mature to the point it could do "everything" I did in my prior sim.  I don't think it will take 2024 that long to achieve parity and if it does then we all have bigger issues 😉 

Edited December 18, 20241 yr by psolk

I’ll agree that the “day” of launch was worse.  But the reason it was, was directly due to the scale of the thing, and it was entirely predictable, which is why I didn’t even bother until a few days later.  I think they quoted that their sever got a billion hits that day, which is obviously not a billion simmers, but the same ones hitting again, and again, and again, and again.  Which is to say there is some user agency in what happened.  
 

im not going to say the sim is amazing yet, I still can’t use all my stuff, there’s some long-standing things still not up to snuff, and so on, but it’s really good, there are a ton of things that are better, and I don’t feel the need to cling back to 2020.  Ymmv

44 minutes ago, psolk said:

and we can ignore what the real world pilots here are saying because a real world pilot on youtube said it... 

Most real world pilots "here" (i assume you mean this forum?) seems to be in agreement that the C172SP is very much improved. @WestAir quick review is fantastic and well-balanced IMHO. 

Is it perfect, absolutely not.

Myself have not touched 2020 since 2024 launch. But I am flying just a few GA in Scandinavia. No external addons or other dependencies.

I acknowledge I might be a minority and there are issues to fix...but hopefully more users can have the same awesome experience as I have in the near future. 

Edited December 18, 20241 yr by SAS443

5 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

Most real world pilots "here" (i assume you mean this forum?) seems to be in agreement that the C172SP is very much improved

I wasn't actually commenting on if the 172 was improved or not, you took my quote out of context. It was an example: 

I was commenting on the convenience that when a reviewer or Youtuber says something that someone doesn't agree with then they are useless and you can't rely on reviews or youtube, it is all clickbait etc etc but on the flip side if they say something positive then it is the gospel and how dare you question it... 

People can't have it both ways and use the reviews when it's convenient for them and dismiss them entirely when it's not was all I was saying, nothing about the 172 itself, that was just an example... 

30 minutes ago, psolk said:

Don't forget when the same reviewers say the C172 is improved in 2024 it is Gospel and we can ignore what the real world pilots here are saying because a real world pilot on youtube said it... 

Some people only listen when it's convenient apparently.  😉  

Here is simple thing. Opinions of real pilots are really appeal to authority especially for those who doesn't know better. You may subscribe to those  believes or dismiss them and go with your own understanding.

In my opinion the best way to evaluate sim is to be able to compare with RL (if you be able to) and pass your own judgement. You mentioned 172! I was low wing guy for many years until I get to my CFI. I did my check ride with FAA in two aircraft: Cessna 172R which I used to demonstrate all commercial maneuvers and the rest in Mooney M20J( power off 180 and the rest of things) From that point I was intimately acquainted with 172. Not only I was primely instructed in 172 because it was most affordable and available in my location primary trainer, but I also I purchased one. So I believe owning and instructing in 172 gave me deep insight to to pass my own judgment on 2024. In my opinion 172 in 2024 is better!

Yet 2024 172 is far from perfect. One of the thing I noticed right away are weak brakes. Yes If I were to ride  2024 172 IRL I would go straight to mechanic to check disks and leaks. But this is not the show stopper of course I teach my students to use brakes lightly while taxi, and when landing using 90% of aerodynamic instead burning brakes! Not to mention the number one tire killer when pilot  hold brales while touching down. Bad habit and overreliance on brakes! Most experienced pilot will tell you that want to save brakes for where you really need them.

I can't tell how many accidents happened with pilots who over rely on brakes and run off runway when they fail! So take advantage of 172 2024 shortcoming to learn how to use less brakes - it will make you better pilot before Asobo finally revise and adjust it LOL

1 minute ago, sd_flyer said:

In my opinion 172 in 2024 is better!

Again, that wasn't what I was commenting on at all, see the post above yours. 

That was just an example of the hypocrisy of people here swearing by reviews when they are positive and dismissing them as clickbait when they are negative or worse, accusing the reviewers of something nefarious or something backhanded because they didn't say what people wanted to hear. 

We are talking about Apples and Oranges though.   

 

3 hours ago, ShawnG said:

Some people value stability over progress.  It’s not an invalid viewpoint, but it’s not one I share.

That attitude is fine. It’s mine hence why I’ve stayed with a sim that isn’t as visually attractive as the streaming ones but remains totally stable for me and probably plenty of other users.

As long as everyone respects those whose choice of sim differs from their own we’ll all get on swimmingly. 😉

3 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I don't see any bugs, but what do I know? 

Very true.