That's no doubt under the hood MSFS24 is a step up in most aspects, it's just severely let down by the overall state of the product at release. VR is such a hot mess I'm now looking at A N Other flight sim (which has a very good reputation for VR) just so I have something to fall back on, until the time comes that MS/Asobo fix this Sim so it becomes what it should've been four weeks ago at launch.

I do keep trying every now and then with this though in a hope it comes together, and I had a rather splendid flight last night, blurry ground textures aside it was very good and in a plane I'd never flown before. That was until landing when the VRAM/memory leak/whatever issues crept in and performance plummeted to remind me this product is just full of faults. 

Still, I did have a nice wander around on foot looking at the pretty bushes 😄

Edited December 18, 20241 yr by MarcG

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

@abrams_tank, as I posted at other threads, I am really enjoying FS 2024 for the extraordinary World Scenery and some aspects of functionality, but I have to take evaluations from real world pilots with care when I still can't find, not even by far, taildraggers or tricycle with a castoring wheel, correctly modelled, requiring proper techniques based on differential braking and propwash as soon as available to control during taxi and takeoff / landing. 

AFAIK FS 2024 and the new FM which has evolved from FS 2020, still doesn't allow (from the available docs, maybe it is not yet documented ?) to model, just  as a few examples:

- a skewed vertical stabilizer;

- a skewed engine, as used for instance in many prop aircraft where the prop axis is not properly aligned with the aircraft longitudinal axis;

- ground set trim tabs

all of the above to overcome prop effects on prop aircraft.

So, when modelling aircraft, like some of those included by default with FS 2024 or addons, you really can't give their deveolepers access to these real world approaches, and properly simulate their effects on the models in the simulator.

Same applies for instance to the modelling of negative flap settings on gliders (an not only), etc...

But correct me if I'm wrong and indeed features like these are already available with the "new" FDM ?

So it may take some time for the 3rd party developers to update their add-ons to fully take advantage of the new flight dynamics in MSFS 2024.  And while the Cessna 172 G1000 is better off in MSFS 2024, I know some of the other default planes are still struggling and need some fixing.  Having said that, even if that happens, there may still be some specific areas that MSFS 2024 can improve on with respect to the flight dynamics.

But overall, the consensus that I seem to be reading, is that the flight dynamics have improved in MSFS 2024.  For sure, we should keep pushing Asobo and the MSFS team to keep improving it further, such as improving the free castoring and nosewheel steering that you and Rimshot have mentioned.  But overall, the flight model is certainly a winner in MSFS 2024, based on the responses from real life pilots I have read so far.

MSFS 2024 still has a lot of issues, especially with all the bugs in career mode, and various other bugs . I think one of the comments from the real life 172 pilot I quoted sums it up the best:

Quote

Having said that, inside the normal flight envelope I find the flight model on the 172 in 2024 pretty accurate. I’ve only got ~300 hours in them and it’s been a while though. Msfs2024 has pleeenty of issues and needs a bunch more time in the oven before it’s ready, but I’m actually pretty happy with the flight modelling. As always it’s very dependent on how well each developer has done each aircraft, but I’m excited to see what devs can come up with in the future.

Just like this person said, MSFS 2024 has plenty of issues but for the flight model, that's one of the best positives to come out of the release of MSFS 2024 (and the improvement in ground handling is also a huge positive with MSFS 2024).

Edited December 18, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

27 minutes ago, psolk said:

This is utter nonsense and blaming the consumer for the lack of transparency from the developer/publisher.....

Had they simply been transparent then yes, I agree it is on the consumer if they KNOWINGLY buy into Early access.  But that's not the case, instead they overpromised and underdelivered......

But this NONSENSE that it is people's own fault for buying something that was sold as ready for production is nonsense.  They were told one thing and sold another, very different from the respectable and transparent process Kunos is using for what will be the worlds largest open world driving sim...

So please stop blaming the users for "believing" MS/Asobo...   

You lied to me and I believed it so it's my fault for believing it not yours for lying is what you are essentially saying...

Absolutely 100%. It defies logic that there are people blaming consumers for purchasing a product that was so heavily promoted by MS with 'pretty' videos.

Credit to @MarcG for predicting what was about to happen. Now we know the real reason why there were no review copies before launch.

MSFS 2024 is certainly usable and enjoyable, but stable - far from it with many issues.

54 minutes ago, psolk said:

Kunos is about to release Assetto Corsa Evo

You have no idea how thrilled I am about that! Their approach is indeed quite different compared to how Asobo and MS handled things in the build up to the MSFS 2024 release. We know what we will get for sure. With MSFS 2024 I didn't receive the simulator I was hoping for...

38 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

So it may take some time for the 3rd party developers to update their add-ons to fully take advantage of the new flight dynamics in MSFS 2024.  And while the Cessna 172 G1000 is better off in MSFS 2024, I know some of the other default planes are still struggling and need some fixing.  Having said that, even if that happens, there may still be some specific areas that MSFS 2024 can improve on with respect to the flight dynamics.

But overall, the consensus that I seem to be reading, is that the flight dynamics have improved in MSFS 2024.  For sure, we should keep pushing Asobo and the MSFS team to keep improving it further, such as improving the free castoring and nosewheel steering that you and Rimshot have mentioned.  But overall, the flight model is certainly a winner in MSFS 2024, based on the responses from real life pilots I have read so far.

MSFS 2024 still has a lot of issues, especially with all the bugs in career mode, and various other bugs . I think one of the comments from the real life 172 pilot I quoted sums it up the best:

Just like this person said, MSFS 2024 has plenty of issues but for the flight model, that's one of the best positives to come out of the release of MSFS 2024 (and the improvement in ground handling is also a huge positive with MSFS 2024).

Yes, and that's why I said I still wait for further news / development.

I think the release of FS 2024 was probably a bit rushed, although I can't blame them for that, because us simmers are rather impatient "beasts", and they having announced a delay would probably not get extraordinary results.

Actually after the release day and maybe 3 days following it, I never experienced any additional problems with FS 2024 in terms of network services, or at least problems that could prevent me from playing it. It's better than FS 2020 was in that respect.

Performance wise FS 2024 beats every other sim I have run in the last couple years, with maybe the exceptions of DCS World and IL2, but those two sims, for diferent reasons, don't have the level of detail of FS 2024's World scenery.

X-Plane 12 stutters a lot, compared to FS 2024, and I have to run it at low/mid settings... while in FS 2024 I can "push the sliders" almost all the way up, and still get great performance even in my "old" rig (in my sig).

There are even "physics modeling" aspects which I find better adjusted in FS 2024 !!! An example is the way toe brakes work.

X-Plane's toe brakes are super sensitive, just as for years I debated the same regarding the way toe brakes of the B744 were modeled in Aerowinx PSX. The justifications always tended to be that of me not using the right hardware for the job, but Hey! Heck! I don't have to spend a fortune in force feedback rudder pedals of the professional brand to be able to enjoy a desktop flightsim, so, the core FM should adapt to it, and indeed ASOBO's approach to the modeling of braking effectivenes and response in FS 2020 and now FS 2024 is by far the best I find among the various civil flightsims I used.

Regarding the revelation of upcoming features that will come with the new FM developed from the FS 2020 base, I still look forward to read, for instance, biplanes, triplanes and the like will have specfific customization, allowing developers to define more than one main wing plan, or multiple vertical stabilizers, etc... So far I haven't found anything about that in the documentation.

Now the details I would like to see further developed in FS 2024 mentioned above are not the reason why I used a probably too harsh adjective to describe it. It's not that !

AND... I haven't retreat fom saying FS 2024 is still my goto civil flightsim !!!

 

Edited December 18, 20241 yr by jcomm

56 minutes ago, MarcG said:

That's no doubt under the hood MSFS24 is a step up in most aspects, it's just severely let down by the overall state of the product at release. VR is such a hot mess I'm now looking at A N Other flight sim (which has a very good reputation for VR) just so I have something to fall back on, until the time comes that MS/Asobo fix this Sim so it becomes what it should've been four weeks ago at launch.

I do keep trying every now and then with this though in a hope it comes together, and I had a rather splendid flight last night, blurry ground textures aside it was very good and in a plane I'd never flown before. That was until landing when the VRAM/memory leak/whatever issues crept in and performance plummeted to remind me this product is just full of faults. 

Still, I did have a nice wander around on foot looking at the pretty bushes 😄

From all I have read about it  so far, it seems to be a pig with stunning lipstick.  😉

1 hour ago, h2egc said:

Mess is an understatement... I am suddenly getting flights where the ignition turns itself off, then the throttle, throttles down by itself. This is happening with both default and addon planes, back to 2020 for awhile.

Did you check your controls setup - double bindings?

2 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

From all I have read about it  so far

...but have you actually tried it?

7 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

...but have you actually tried it?

When I puchase something on line, I always read reviews first. When a large percentage of reviews say that the product is worthless, has tons of problems, doesn't work as expected, etc..etc..   Guess what, I don't buy it. Saves me a great deal of grief. Same goes for software. 

So you're just going off of what "other" people are saying. Got it. 

2 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

So you're just going off of what "other" people are saying. Got it. 

Yup, I don't eat in restaurants with a one star rating  either. 

Just now, Ricardo41 said:

So you're just going off of what "other" people are saying. Got it. 

I've been using this practice with success for more than 24 years. For example, I skipped FSX completely and I was right as history had shown. I had patiently stayed with FS2004, read reviews about P3D and without any transitional pain jumped into the V3 that was released in October 2015. Then I utilized the same approach with MSFS2020, a platform which i switched into in October 2022 only, more than 2 years after its release. 

The same fate probably awaits MSFS2024 😉 Unless Lockheed Martin purchase the entire ASOBO team as a base to develop their P3Dv7.

12 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

When I puchase something on line, I always read reviews first. When a large percentage of reviews say that the product is worthless, has tons of problems, doesn't work as expected, etc..etc..   Guess what, I don't buy it. Saves me a great deal of grief. Same goes for software. 

Bob! MSFS2024 indeed has a lot of problems. Relying solely on reviews by now you should already get a picture that 2024 is not one sided opinion. Some people don't like it but some actually do! In 2020 you already accepted all limitations and live with it without noticing them. Same process will be follow by many in 2024. People will rant and about hardware new setup system, UI and etc until dust settles and they accept it as normal.

 I've been flying NSFS2024 since the start. Yes a lot of stock aircraft are broken, but truth to be told I rarely if ever flew stock aircraft in 2020 either. What impressive is how quickly some developers were able to port their  aircraft into 2024. And with that using  2024 is better experience than 2020. 2024 is superior many aspect including visual, weather, seasons, FM, grand physics and etc. I finally able to see cumulonimbus clouds without any 3rd party weather rendering add on. I'm currently enjoying APL2 flying for Fedex Cargo in A300. I definitely have better experience in this respect with 2024 than I had with 2020. With little more time we will get MD-11, iFly, Leonardo and PMDG ported into 2024 plus new projects. Meanwhile I'm pretty sure Asobo will work on bug fixes and improvements so future is bright.

15 hours ago, John-Allen said:

Were they all getting drunk at happy hour and leaving everything UNFINISHED?

Here we go again

Someone ranting the game doesn't work for them.

Plenty of people are happily using 2024.

Not sure what the purpose of your post is other than to stir up more nonsense.

2020 is a dead end, keep using it if you like it.

2024 is the future, if you don't like it there are other choices!!!

10 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

Bob! MSFS2024 indeed has a lot of problems. Relying solely on reviews by now you should already get a picture that 2024 is not one sided opinion. Some people don't like it but some actually do! In 2020 you already accepted all limitations and live with it without noticing them. Same process will be follow by many in 2024. People will rant and about hardware new setup system, UI and etc until dust settles and they accept it as normal.

 I've been flying NSFS2024 since the start. Yes a lot of stock aircraft are broken, but truth to be told I rarely if ever flew stock aircraft in 2020 either. What impressive is how quickly some developers were able to port their  aircraft into 2024. And with that using  2024 is better experience than 2020. 2024 is superior many aspect including visual, weather, seasons, FM, grand physics and etc. I finally able to see cumulonimbus clouds without any 3rd party weather rendering add on. I'm currently enjoying APL2 flying for Fedex Cargo in A300. I definitely have better experience in this respect with 2024 than I had with 2020. With little more time we will get MD-11, iFly, Leonardo and PMDG ported into 2024 plus new projects. Meanwhile I'm pretty sure Asobo will work on bug fixes and improvements so future is bright.

Yeah, well when it is ready for prime time, I will buy it, but not before.