A very bad analogy indeed. Doesn't he realize Porsche cars actually look good? Would be better to swap that with a Nissan Juke or something.

The problem with the complete cloud-based sim design is it excludes those with slower connections or data caps.  It makes sense to have visual data needed for photogrammetry, 3D object placement, weather injection, traffic and so forth to be streamed.  However, with MSFS2020, you could fly "offline" and despite looking bad, it worked.  You also don't eat tons of data or worry about internet slowing.  With 2024 they're forcing you to exceed data caps in some places and suffer image loss due to poor speeds.  Some folks have said they simply can't obtain internet needed to run such a sim, so how is that okay?  Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  There was no reason to force a new sim onto a cloud-based system.  Anyone who complains about disk space for exchange is foolish.  You are forced to have an expensive computer, but you wanna complain about disk space when SSDs are not expensive?  That is attainable to anyone who has access to the game, but good internet is not ubiquitous.

I understand the hesitation with a game that is cloud based and requires a certain threshold of speed; but they do make this clear in the advertisements. Still I appreciate that it could leave some people behind.  At the same time you just can't get this kind of detail and depth without cloud storage and streaming.

In terms of data usage, I have been keeping an eye on this and I have not found it to be very much more than 2020.  It does use a little more each month, but it is not so much that it would push someone over a data cap, unless they are really close to the cap because of their overall usage. What is more strange to me is the idea that data caps exist in 2024!!!  I use 1 to 2 TB a month on an unlimited plan.

12 hours ago, MattNischan said:

However, content is streamed. In MSFS 2020, this meant terrain and city scenery, with airports and aircraft always stored locally. In MSFS 2024, this streaming is expanded a bit to also include aircraft and airports. Options are coming to also locally download that type of content.

 

Tx Matt, so once the options to locally store aircraft and airports arrive, would 2024 be effectively similar to 2020 in terms of streaming and client/server set-up?

6 hours ago, Orlaam said:

The problem with the complete cloud-based sim design is it excludes those with slower connections or data caps.  It makes sense to have visual data needed for photogrammetry, 3D object placement, weather injection, traffic and so forth to be streamed.  However, with MSFS2020, you could fly "offline" and despite looking bad, it worked.  You also don't eat tons of data or worry about internet slowing.  With 2024 they're forcing you to exceed data caps in some places and suffer image loss due to poor speeds.  Some folks have said they simply can't obtain internet needed to run such a sim, so how is that okay?  Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  There was no reason to force a new sim onto a cloud-based system.  Anyone who complains about disk space for exchange is foolish.  You are forced to have an expensive computer, but you wanna complain about disk space when SSDs are not expensive?  That is attainable to anyone who has access to the game, but good internet is not ubiquitous.

Exactly this what you wrote. 

I am not sure what they are thinking . That each household/family is sitting on 1Gbit fiber connection ?   I really do hope they will do it like in MSFS2020. AIrports and planes locally stored and streaming only the terrain,  weather , cities and vegetation.   I live in a villge next to a small town.  The ppl in town have possibility to have 1Gbit fiber connections. But me in village I am happy for at leat 40-50Mbit Wifi 5GHz .  Or there is starlink but I know it is quite vulnerable for some obstructions.   

I asked a few times my interent provider if there are plans to bring that fiber to my village which is like 5KMs from the small city. Butyeah no it is too expensive and without some EU help they will not do it .... 

So sorry Asobo/Microsoft but would be great if you still count that not all you customer and players of MSFS2024 have the best internet connection possible.  

4 hours ago, Cognita said:

I understand the hesitation with a game that is cloud based and requires a certain threshold of speed; but they do make this clear in the advertisements. Still I appreciate that it could leave some people behind.  At the same time you just can't get this kind of detail and depth without cloud storage and streaming.

In terms of data usage, I have been keeping an eye on this and I have not found it to be very much more than 2020.  It does use a little more each month, but it is not so much that it would push someone over a data cap, unless they are really close to the cap because of their overall usage. What is more strange to me is the idea that data caps exist in 2024!!!  I use 1 to 2 TB a month on an unlimited plan.

For me data cap is not an issue.  It is the speed I think.   Would love to have better speed but it is not there.    I would love if they can go to the MSFS2020 way and give us airports and planes to have them locally. 

13 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I meant stutters on final. I've sort of "resolved" the object popping issue by setting OLOD to... ahem 1000. Yeah it sounds crazy - but it doesn't affect performance that much. 

I will need to test it.  Just waiting for new card as I am updating from 3060ti to 4070ti super.   So will try to bump the OLOD to 500 at least.  As I really hate this popping of items in front of me.  

I live in a country where we are fortunate to have a very good overall internet connection at a reasonable price. I have 1gb/s very stable so far I have not had problems with servers but I do not want a game 100% in the cloud.

They have to give the option to play offline I do not want to depend on Microsoft to give me service to play, if I spend hundreds or thousands of euros in addons I want to be sure that I can continue playing if Microsoft decides to close its services.

Storage nowadays is very cheap, with X-Plane I have stored more than 4 GB of orthos with much more quality than MFS offers and it is not necessary to have an SSD to have this data stored, streaming is fine as an option but being able to play offline should be another option too.

20 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

My guess is Austin Meyer is laughing about this. 

Everyone is...

1 hour ago, Jovzin said:

Exactly this what you wrote. 

I am not sure what they are thinking . That each household/family is sitting on 1Gbit fiber connection ?   I really do hope they will do it like in MSFS2020. AIrports and planes locally stored and streaming only the terrain,  weather , cities and vegetation.   I live in a villge next to a small town.  The ppl in town have possibility to have 1Gbit fiber connections. But me in village I am happy for at leat 40-50Mbit Wifi 5GHz .  Or there is starlink but I know it is quite vulnerable for some obstructions.   

I asked a few times my interent provider if there are plans to bring that fiber to my village which is like 5KMs from the small city. Butyeah no it is too expensive and without some EU help they will not do it .... 

So sorry Asobo/Microsoft but would be great if you still count that not all you customer and players of MSFS2024 have the best internet connection possible.  

Yes, and keep in mind that 1Gbit fiber connection is rarely seen in underdeveloped countries.  For instance, how many countries in South America, or say, Africa, can count on high speed internet?

By creating a streaming game that requires so much data, you are indeed creating an exclusive simulator. 

Even some parts of Europe and North America do not have access to fiber optic.

On the other hand, not sure how 2020 compares to 2024 in terms of data consumption.

Sad to see people still saying the sim is 100% in the cloud when Matt has already clarified that this isn't the case. Should have been obvious, really since we do have to download about 15 gigs from Steam/MS store.

8 hours ago, Orlaam said:

The problem with the complete cloud-based sim design is it excludes those with slower connections or data caps.

How slow does one's internet have to be for their experience to be adversely affected? Do you know anyone who has hit their data cap because of 2024?

I purchased 2024 through the Xbox app on the PC. 2020 was the same. Do all the versions perform the same? Do they all install the same? As in does Steam, the MS store and Xbox versions all install the same content on the PC and use the cloud the same way? Would performance at all be tied to the version one purchased?

1 hour ago, Krakin said:

Sad to see people still saying the sim is 100% in the cloud when Matt has already clarified that this isn't the case. Should have been obvious, really since we do have to download about 15 gigs from Steam/MS store.

How slow does one's internet have to be for their experience to be adversely affected? Do you know anyone who has hit their data cap because of 2024?

I hit my data cap for the first time, a year ago with 2020. I spend $30 more a month for unlimited data. It is obvious that 2024 will use even  more data than 2020. 

Not sure where the requirement to have 1gbit internet to use MSFS came from. MSFS own spec sheet says at the absolute maximum you require a 100mbps connection and even then it hasn't been shown to saturate that connection, PCGamer did a silly test where it peaked but never consistently stayed at 100mbps downstream.

The argument about data caps is fair (ISPs genuinely have no rationale for doing this except charging extra but whatever), however there's been no mention of requiring 1gbit and at the bear minimum the spec sheet entails that 10mbps is sufficient but recommends 50mbps.

So I'm wondering, why there's a push to say that MSFS users require outlandish internet speeds when they don't? FS24's problems stems from a poorly built cloud infrastructure not consumer's slow internet. This is demonstrated even in FS20 when you have a perfectly stable internet but MSFS notifies you that it lost connection to it's servers.

16 minutes ago, Lucky38i said:

Not sure where the requirement to have 1gbit internet to use MSFS came from. MSFS own spec sheet says at the absolute maximum you require a 100mbps connection and even then it hasn't been shown to saturate that connection, PCGamer did a silly test where it peaked but never consistently stayed at 100mbps downstream.

The argument about data caps is fair (ISPs genuinely have no rationale for doing this except charging extra but whatever), however there's been no mention of requiring 1gbit and at the bear minimum the spec sheet entails that 10mbps is sufficient but recommends 50mbps.

So I'm wondering, why there's a push to say that MSFS users require outlandish internet speeds when they don't? FS24's problems stems from a poorly built cloud infrastructure not consumer's slow internet. This is demonstrated even in FS20 when you have a perfectly stable internet but MSFS notifies you that it lost connection to it's servers.

Understanding the internet, the data from the Asobo servers to each individual user goes through multiple routes. Looking at it like water pipeines, if one of the pipes is only 1/8 of an inch anywhere in this entire route, this would restrict the data coming to your PC. It doesn't matter if you have a 12-inch water main feeding your PC; it is that one 1/8" restriction that will cause the problem. So you could have a 1GB fiber into your home and still get stutters, and slow loading of tiles. 

With digital storage so cheap now a days, why did MS/Asobo decided to stream 99% of the sim is just beyond me. I suppose there are a good reasons to justify going this route. It is what it is.

Edited January 8, 20251 yr by CarlosF