5 minutes ago, joby33y said:

The point of the ‘anger’ is missed.  It’s not about the absolute price, or how good PMDG’s products are, or their operating costs….it’s about the lack of a simple gesture of customer loyalty. When one buys nearly everything they’ve produced since the the days of Prepar3d v1, and now having paid full price for both 773 and 77F in MSFS, the lack of an ‘upgrade/discount’ for the 772 creates frustration (and apparently anger, for some).  Personally, I’m disappointed and simply choose not to pay another $77 for the 772.  I just wouldn’t feel good about the purchase, regardless of what Kok is saying about new wings & engine options.  

Not that I disagree with the idea of offering discounts on returning business. In my opinion, absolute price/operating costs/discounts are all related. You can have a company that offers discounts for returning customers but in order to offer those discounts, they inflate the price individually so that it looks like a value to the customer. You could also reduce the price of everything and say no discounts. From an optics pov the former looks better than the latter, that's why a certain large retail store chain ran into a big issue when they moved to the latter model over the former. Note that I am also not saying that PMDG does this. They may or may not, I don't know.

3 hours ago, G MIDY said:

I just checked and 5 years ago and I paid $220 for two 777 variants for P3D. The 777-300ER for MSFS meanwhile is $75 and the 777-200ER is $77 so whichever way you cut it that's half price.

I just don't understand how a comparsion between P3D and MSFS works. P3D has a completly different pricing model due to licening-model that came with P3D. I tend to compare with FSX prices, because there was no additional cost involved for licening. Also the comparsion is not accurate, since P3D had much less customers compared to MSFS additional to the opening of a completly new market of XBOX users.

I keep on my hypothesis. If PMDG would lower their prices or offer expansions with a reasonable pricing modell or allow some discount for customers who own one variant, they would sell more and make more profit. It's not only the price in itself, it's more what you get for the price. They could charge what they charge now, if they come with relevant innovation that is accurate for flight sim in 2025, but their products feel like port-overs, which is sad.

I remember when I switched from PMDG 737 for FS2004 to PMDG 737 in FSX, that was revolutionary. Now..., we have Fenix and other devs for innovation which is also fine, because as long as I have something that keeps me happy I can avoid the other plane that I used to fly.

You could also argue that maybe some customers should start accepting that (for example) flying a 737-700 on a 737-800 route isn't quite the blasphemy that some users make it out to be. Get used to that, and you do not need all the variants.

1 minute ago, Christopher Low said:

You could also argue that maybe some customers should start accepting that (for example) flying a 737-700 on a 737-800 route isn't quite the blasphemy that some users make it out to be. Get used to that, and you do not need all the variants.

Hi,

Bingo, agree 100%! I run all real world flights found on Flightaware using the 738. I don't plan on spending full price for additional variants. I've spent a ton of cash over the years on flight simulation, but it doesn't mean I'm just going to give my cash away. Hard to believe there is no discount, but it is what it is and my wallet stays shut. 

7 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

You could also argue that maybe some customers should start accepting that (for example) flying a 737-700 on a 737-800 route isn't quite the blasphemy that some users make it out to be. Get used to that, and you do not need all the variants.

From a customers perspective yes, I only have the 738 which is enough, since I don't fly any airliners anymore that operate the 737. When it comes to the 777 I would like to have the 773ER and 77F. However, I have none of them, because of pricing, innnovation and expansion pricing policy.

It's maybe not a blasphemy for some but those who use to fly on virtual airlines, it might be a reason to get the PIREPS rejected.

From a developers perspective, this argument would be hilarious.

Just an open question to everyone. In terms of innovation, what would you like to see from PMDG?

22 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

You could also argue that maybe some customers should start accepting that (for example) flying a 737-700 on a 737-800 route isn't quite the blasphemy that some users make it out to be. Get used to that, and you do not need all the variants.

Wait, people actually do that? Isnt this hobby supposed to be fun?! 

5 hours ago, JonathanC said:

Technically and following the economic definition sure, the market conditions do not prevent anyone else and I’m sure PMDG isn’t doing monopolistic behaviour.

but as a practical matter as a user, it’s a monopoly because there are no other options and my point is simply that PMDG doesn’t need to change pricing because they have no competition. So they are doing what a smart business does and maximizing revenue by pricing at what they feel the market can bear. And it works for them so why change.

As a user, I hope someone makes a Boeing 73/77 family which is like 80% of PMDG quality for let’s say 60% of the price.. I’d buy it  

 

What you're trying to describe is Capitalism.

Monopoly has a distinctly negative connotation of market domination through coercion, which, again, isn't at all what's happening.

More importantly, you seem to be missing the fact that there's a great deal of competition in the airliner add-on market. Have you noticed that the price for a High Fidelity airliner of ANY type from ANY developer averages about $75...?

No, you're caught up in wanting a cheaper Boeing addon and transferring that angst to the only developer who's actually offering Hi Fi Boeings.

Do you see the irony...?

PMDG are indeed charging what the Fair and Open Market will bear, because that's what all their COMPETITORS are also doing.

The weird thing to me is that you're hyper focused on much cheaper and lower fidelity Boeing addons being available in v2024 while simultaneously ignoring the Default 737 MAX, 787, and 747 that are all included with the cost of the simulator!!!

And hey, you want a High Fidelity Boeing for half the cost instead of for free....? Fly the $35 736 in v2020.

Boom! Done.

Edited May 7, 20251 yr by UrgentSiesta
Clarification

Despite the gnashing of teeth and grievances that some seem to harbor towards PMDG and/or RSR, they remain a top notch high fidelity developer still delivering quality aircraft for MSFS. And their products are highly popular given the sales #s for their 737 and 777 lines so far, the initial onslaught of sales when the first 777 released, etc. Yes the likes of Fenix and other devs entering the MSFS scene mean that PMDG are no longer the lone top dog, but all the better for us with all these devs churning out products for MSFS.

Now obviously PMDG is a business so no shock that they're in it to make a profit. Depending on how the cost/benefit tradeoffs work, in addition to making each variant of a 7xx aircraft line available for purchase separately, perhaps PMDG should look at providing bundle discount(s)? i.e. discounted price for buying all variants of the 77x line, or if one already has some variants, then purchasing further variants are discounted, etc.
 

Edited May 7, 20251 yr by lwt1971

4 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Despite the gnashing of teeth and grievances that some seem to harbor towards PMDG and/or RSR, they remain a top notch high fidelity developer still delivering quality aircraft for MSFS. And their products are highly popular given the sales #s for their 737 and 777 lines so far, the initial onslaught of sales when the first 777 released, etc. Yes the likes of Fenix and other devs entering the MSFS scene mean that PMDG are no longer the lone top dog, but all the better for us with all these devs churning out products for MSFS.

Now obviously PMDG is a business so no shock that they're in it to make a profit. Depending on how the cost/benefit tradeoffs work, in addition to making each variant of a 7xx aircraft line available for purchase separately, perhaps PMDG should look at providing bundle discount(s)? i.e. discounted price for buying all variants of the 77x line, or if one already has some variants, then purchasing further variants are discounted, etc.
 

Of course they're highly popular no other competitor at the moment to go against them. If they had another competitor and same fidelity I be willing to bet they would be undercut. Yes they should look at providing bundle discounts. If I remember correctly Fenix has done two discount sales since they've been around.

9 hours ago, Matchstick said:

It's worth noting that FF DO NOT charge full price again if you want to add an extra version.

And this reflects my problem with PMDGs pricing, the price they charge for a single aircrafts is fine (though $77 is towards the top end of what I'd be willing to pay), it's charging the same for additional variants that's the problem.

While true, those add-ons are all 10 years old. I.e, no idea if they'd change their pricing on a new since the single variants 777 is their only new addon in all that time...?

And FF are charging something like $25 for the engine options on their 777, which pushes the price up over $100, IIRC.

Further, Toliss unabashedly charge $90 for each and every Airbus A320 variant, and seem to be satisfied with the revenue for years now.

I think Randazzo is applying IRL car pricing to his add-ons...

1 hour ago, joby33y said:

The point of the ‘anger’ is missed.  It’s not about the absolute price, or how good PMDG’s products are, or their operating costs….it’s about the lack of a simple gesture of customer loyalty. When one buys nearly everything they’ve produced since the the days of Prepar3d v1, and now having paid full price for both 773 and 77F in MSFS, the lack of an ‘upgrade/discount’ for the 772 creates frustration (and apparently anger, for some).  Personally, I’m disappointed and simply choose not to pay another $77 for the 772.  I just wouldn’t feel good about the purchase, regardless of what Kok is saying about new wings & engine options.  

He won a great deal of loyalty from me by giving me a free copy of the MSFS 737 included in the price of my P3D 737.

Oh, and leaving enough left over for most of another airliner... 👍

Then he also earned it by releasing the $35 736 to market. Which doesn't benefit me, per se, but says a lot about creating a win-win situation for the consumer.

Can you get a Fenix for $35? Can you get one for $50..?

I mean, has ANY other developer done the same...?

Let me save you all some time: NO, no other developer has done the same consumer beneficial actions.

And here we are complaining about how anti-consumer PMDG is when so many other devs have exactly the same pricing strategies on their premium add-ons while never offering a similar "first time buyer" program.

Again, I NEVER see the anger towards Leonardo, et al.

What it really shows me is how pervasive Sour Grapes Syndrome is, and how popular PMDG products really are.

7 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

He won a great deal of loyalty from me by giving me a free copy of the MSFS 737 included in the price of my P3D 737.

Oh, and leaving enough left over for most of another airliner... 👍

Then he also earned it by releasing the $35 736 to market. Which doesn't benefit me, per se, but says a lot about creating a win-win situation for the consumer.

Can you get a Fenix for $35? Can you get one for $50..?

I mean, has ANY other developer done the same...?

Let me save you all some time: NO, no other developer has done the same consumer beneficial actions.

And here we are complaining about how anti-consumer PMDG is when so many other devs have exactly the same pricing strategies on their premium add-ons while never offering a similar "first time buyer" program.

Again, I NEVER see the anger towards Leonardo, et al.

What it really shows me is how pervasive Sour Grapes Syndrome is, and how popular PMDG products really are.

Don’t quote me but I’m sure that he said one of the 777’s will be a bit cheaper like the 736 so I would assume this to be the LR.

 

I spent roughly $100 dollars on the leonardo MD-80 and personally I feel the model, texturing and sounds are way off what an addon of that price should be in the modern sims. 
 

Bluebird have been at their 757 (which I’m eagerly looking forward to) for nearly 4 or 5 years now.  That just shows how much work goes into these addons if they are to be done correctly from scratch.  And then say they is 5/6 people working full time on that without receiving  $1 of I come. 

Edited May 7, 20251 yr by scotgr

19 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

He won a great deal of loyalty from me by giving me a free copy of the MSFS 737 included in the price of my P3D 737.

Oh, and leaving enough left over for most of another airliner... 👍

Then he also earned it by releasing the $35 736 to market. Which doesn't benefit me, per se, but says a lot about creating a win-win situation for the consumer.

Can you get a Fenix for $35? Can you get one for $50..?

I mean, has ANY other developer done the same...?

Let me save you all some time: NO, no other developer has done the same consumer beneficial actions.

And here we are complaining about how anti-consumer PMDG is when so many other devs have exactly the same pricing strategies on their premium add-ons while never offering a similar "first time buyer" program.

Again, I NEVER see the anger towards Leonardo, et al.

What it really shows me is how pervasive Sour Grapes Syndrome is, and how popular PMDG products really are.

Lets be realistic the only reason the 736 is cheap is because hardly anyone will buy and isn't that popular. To really compare you should use the 738 which is $69.99 sale price or $74.99 without sale. Fenix costs £39.99 just for the A320 and speaks for it self really. The A319/21 £39.99. To have all three £89.98 which before had a sale on to about £80 give or take. So it is cheaper. Maybe if Fenix did create the A318 you would expect it to be roughly around the same price point of the 736 which would be more comparable. Put it this way you get Three variants which only allows you to get one variant with PMDG. 

Edited May 7, 20251 yr by carlanthony24

44 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

What you're trying to describe is Capitalism.

Monopoly has a distinctly negative connotation of market domination through coercion, which, again, isn't at all what's happening.

More importantly, you seem to be missing the fact that there's a great deal of competition in the airliner add-on market. Have you noticed that the price for a High Fidelity airliner of ANY type from ANY developer averages about $75...?

No, you're caught up in wanting a cheaper Boeing addon and transferring that angst to the only developer who's actually offering Hi Fi Boeings.

Do you see the irony...?

PMDG are indeed charging what the Fair and Open Market will bear, because that's what all their COMPETITORS are also doing.

The weird thing to me is that you're hyper focused on much cheaper and lower fidelity Boeing addons being available in v2024 while simultaneously ignoring the Default 737 MAX, 787, and 747 that are all included with the cost of the simulator!!!

And hey, you want a High Fidelity Boeing for half the cost instead of for free....? Fly the $35 736 in v2020.

Boom! Done

"Boom! Done" 😄 

I know the common criticism of AVsim is that everyone here is too old.. but sometimes, you find the kids. You are kinda in love for PMDG (look at all your responses). In such cases, I quietly back away and shut the door because you cannot have a substantial discussion with people that apparently are emotionally engaged with a corporation. I hope you and PMDG enjoy many happy years together.