54 minutes ago, petejohno1 said:

Whilst I do like some of these " first looks", I wish the presenters would spend a couple of hours in the sim before posting video's and making us watch them learning as they go along.

Isn't that how we all do it?  ☺️

Sometimes twotone drinks ale during his vids.

dd

Edited July 4, 2025Jul 4 by Sky_Pilot071

Got to sneak in an hour and a half of testing tonight with the Aerostar.

Is... Is the flight model still a work in progress?  I can't find anything that suggests it is.  And I am an unrepentant A2A fan[DontCensorThis]boy, ESPECIALLY their flight modeling, so it's the last thing I expected to raise an eyebrow.  But: 

1.  Left turning tendencies.  There aren't any, near as I can tell?  In a zero wind condition, I was able to line up with the runway and then take off with my feet basically on the floor.

2.  Single engine work.  A dead windmilling engine, with the other engine at 25 squared, produced about 1/2 ball displacement of yaw, and required only the slightest touch of rudder to fully coordinate.  There was maybe a slight difference between the engine being feathered vs windmilling, but it was honestly hard to tell, there was so little rudder required to begin with.

3.  Vmc.  I could not seem to get it to come even close to a Vmc scenario.  CG fully aft, one engine at full power and the other one at idle with a flat prop, and no more than about 1/3 rudder delection was needed to keep the ball centered, even below redline and right into the stall.  Sure, a lot of airplanes will stall before they Vmc and roll over in a lot of circumstances, but I created the worst case scenario and it still seemed to require very little rudder.

I'm trying to remember if I've ever flown an Aerostar and I can't.  So clearly I'm not an authority on this specific airplane.  But those are two IO-540s out there, 290hp a side, and they are not counter-rotating.  Further, the Aerostar is known for having a smallish rudder with commensurately less authority than many other light twins.  And I mean, an anemic old Duchess requires more rudder work single engine, and where's the normal left turning tendencies during takeoff and climb?

General handling feels wonderful, and she's a joy to land.  I feel like panel and instrument textures could be a bit higher res, but I understand some of that IS still WIP, and even if not it's certainly usable.  Night lighting is beautiful, the autopilot is the perfect combination of old and fiddly but very capable when you learn its quirks, and instrument performance during a raw data ILS is as wonderful as the Comanche.  The tablet is superb.  The cabin is very nice.  And I mean, it's an Aerostar... A cool plane! 

But has anyone else noticed that she seems too docile in terms of directional stability in these scenarios??  Or something weird with my setup maybe?

1 hour ago, Stearmandriver said:

1.  Left turning tendencies.  There aren't any, near as I can tell?  In a zero wind condition, I was able to line up with the runway and then take off with my feet basically on the floor.

I don't know which version is represented in the A2A model, but the 700P version had counter-rotating props...

Founf this "pilot report": Flight test - Piper Aerostar

Edited July 4, 2025Jul 4 by jcomm

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

I don't know which version is represented in the A2A model, but the 700P version had counter-rotating props...

A2A modeled the original 600, so no counter rotating props. I have not had a chance to fly it too much, just one loop around CYXU and one positive was the feeling of the landing, I was quite impressed. Hopefully A2A will keep sharing what they are working on and adjusting. I would also have expected the flight model to have been tuned.

That tendency for many propellor driven planes to turn to one side is incredibly annoying. I really liked the A2A Piper Cherokee in P3D, but I just wanted it to fly straight and level without having to wrestle with it.

From a newbee to this - why is this left track/traveling happening based on a science standpoint? (Like Kodiak 100 also etc)

Thanks Michael Moe

32 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

From a newbee to this - why is this left track/traveling happening based on a science standpoint? (Like Kodiak 100 also etc)

Thanks Michael Moe

Simply - 

According to Airhead, www.airheadatpl.com, when the propeller spins clockwise (as viewed from the cockpit), the aircraft body tends to rotate in the opposite direction (counterclockwise), resulting in a left-turning tendency. This is a direct application of Newton's Third Law of Motion: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". 

Watch a tractor trailer accelerating under heavy load.  You’ll see the cab move to the side slightly as the  torque builds from the engine component (crankshaft?) spinning.  Similar idea. 

Or for a more comprehensive explanation

https://skybrary.aero/articles/p-factor

Best wishes.

On 7/2/2025 at 2:53 AM, martinboehme said:

 

I haven't flown the plane yet but AIUI, you need to put the flap handle back in the neutral position when the flaps reach the setting you want.

IOW, the flap handle has three positions:

Up: Flaps will continually move up (until they're fully retracted). 

Neutral: Flaps will stay where they currently are. 

Down: Flaps will continually move down (until they're fully extended).

To set an intermediate flap position, put the handle in "Down" until the flaps reach the required setting, then put the handle back in "Neutral". The Aerostar does not have detents on the flap handle that correspond to specific flap settings.

Did a bit of fiddling and got the flaps lever to work with the Bravo.

1. For the Aerostar, Bravo, created a new profile, go to Flight Control Surfaces, Secondary Control Surfaces
2. For Decrease Flaps, click on the left box to scan and flip the Bravo lever up and then let it spring back. Should show Joystick Button 16
3. For Increase Flaps, click on the left box to scan and flip the Bravo lever down and then let it spring back. Should show Joystick Button 15
4. For Flaps Axis (0-100%), click the left box to scan and flip the Bravo lever down. Should show Joystick Button 15
5. For Flaps Axis (0-100%), click the RIGHT box to scan and flip the Bravo lever up. Should show Joystick Button 16
6. For Flaps Axis (0-100%), click the gear icon.
7. With the selector at the bottom on Primary, on the left side of the screen it should show Joystick Button 15 with a check mark
Set "Input Value" to 50.00
Select "Set Control on Release" (checkmark to the right)
8. 7. Move the selector at the bottom to Secondary, on the left side of the screen it should show Joystick Button 16 with a check mark
Set "input value" to 50.00
Select "Set Control on Release" (checkmark to the right)
9. ESC back out to Save and Back

Now, moving the flap level down and holding it moves the aircraft flap lever down, and holds it. Upon release, it sends the flaps 50.00 command and the aircraft lever returns to the middle. Vice versa for flaps up.

You have to watch the flap position indicator and stop the movement when they're where you want them.

6 hours ago, jcomm said:

I don't know which version is represented in the A2A model, but the 700P version had counter-rotating props...

Founf this "pilot report": Flight test - Piper Aerostar

Yeah this is the 600.  I just looked out at the wing as I started them; they both turn in the same direction.  😉

4 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

From a newbee to this - why is this left track/traveling happening based on a science standpoint? (Like Kodiak 100 also etc)

Thanks Michael Moe

There are four separate phenomena that cause this: torque, p factor, spiraling slipstream, and gyroscopic precession (that last one realistically only applies to taildraggers though).  Each of these is felt to a greater or lesser degree in various phases of flight, but taken together they're called left turning tendencies and are most obvious on takeoff and climb out.  I'm sure there's good YouTube tutorials that explain them if you look up "left turning tendencies".

2 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

There are four separate phenomena that cause this: torque, p factor, spiraling slipstream, and gyroscopic precession (that last one realistically only applies to taildraggers though).  Each of these is felt to a greater or lesser degree in various phases of flight, but taken together they're called left turning tendencies and are most obvious on takeoff and climb out.  I'm sure there's good YouTube tutorials that explain them if you look up "left turning tendencies".

Thanks , an event for thinking - not understanding i am afraid

 

Thanks

Michael Moe

On 7/2/2025 at 6:40 PM, some1 said:

. Scott's aircraft would be 56 this year. 

Did it end up being written off after the gear failure...? That would make me really sad.

9 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

1.  Left turning tendencies.  There aren't any, near as I can tell?  In a zero wind condition, I was able to line up with the runway and then take off with my feet basically on the floor.

TBH, I have the same issue with the Comanche, at least in 2024. Very little rudder needed around the pattern even with all the power changes, tho it is there to a small degree.

Whereas the JF Piper Turbo Arrow seems quite over-exaggerated in that regard. Seems like it needs more rudder than a P-51! 

Not saying which is more correct, tho A2A are certainly more intimate with operating an IRL Comanche than JF are an Arrow (not bashing JF, just contrasting)