Mario Noriega's freeware P-180 at http://forum.avsim.n...-freeware-p180/. That little beauty has ton's of character, especially since you need to watch

 

+1 on Mario Noriega's freeware P-180!!!

 

But I just bought the Citabria, Decathlon and Scout 2007 - Upgrade, from RealAir. I owned the fs2004 version. Going aerobatic tonight :-)

 

I never bought any Carenados, so, I can't really comment...

Interesting to see that the OP's planes are mostly older, pre-Bernt Stolle. Don't know if that would make a difference or not, but I'm generally pleased with my Carenado fleet (all Bernt Stolle other than the 210) and several of them remain regulars on my list. The A36 doesn't get much use, but that's as much because I find the actual A36 a great, but rather soulless plane that just doesn't tickle me.

 

Just last night I flew from Campbell River BC to Orcas, in the RealAir Legacy, and followed that by a short run from Boundary Bay, BC to Bowerman in the Carenado 337 (I was re-installing a couple of Don Grovestine fields and checking them out). I'd been out of the 337 for a few weeks flying the Legacy and the Milviz B55 heavily, and it was a sheer joy to get back into my old favorite 337. Plenty of "there, there" as the saying goes, and in some ways the 337 still "gets" me in ways even the excellent Legacy doesn't.

 

I'm not much for the gimmicky stuff - I want an FDE that seems credible, decent sound and a VC that's well implemented and makes me feel like I'm flying THAT plane in the real world (I guess this is what I judge as "character"), and good, appropriate and well implemented avionics that I can actually use in a real-world way. I get that with the Legacy, with many of my Carenados and with the Milviz B55, which BTW has the most "real" appearing panel I've yet purchased.

 

Obviously others disagree and that's cool, but just wanted to present a different view.

 

Scott

Yesterday I pondered about a new aircraft for my hangar, I more or less felt like a little retail therapy to be honest. So off the back of reading a few opinions about the Carenado Commander, I decided to part with some dosh. Hmm, I thought after installing... something is missing. But no, everything is there. Ezdok works, LINDA works fine... sounds not too bad, but hey what is it? I don't know, I cannot fathom it at all. In fact I have the same feeling of emptyness with virtually all my Carenado planes. Now don't get me wrong, I know they are a very popular producer of aircraft and very competent, but for some reason, something is missing and I don't know what. Now, all my Realair planes and Sibwings, A2A etc, all have that 'something' but what is it. It must be something subconscious, is it the sound set, the flight dynamics? I don't know, all I know is that I have a plane which wil probably reside at the back of my hangar for quite some time. A shame... does anyone else share this strange phenomenon with me?

 

Howard, et al,

No, you sure aren't alone in this (as is obvious from the number of respondents here). I've known what the "problem" is for some time, but decided against posting this at the Carenado forum as my underwear would be in flames in no time from the "fan-boys" there who think looks are the only thing that matter in a flight sim. That's unfortunate because it gives Carenado a free pass to never improve their product and to keep collecting the money while the customer does most of the work to get the airplane flying and working correctly.

 

There is no question but what Carenado's graphics are superior. Are they the best, like so many seem to tout? No. I've got other machines that are better. But they are good. Carenado's problems aren't their graphics - it's their sloppiness and lack of "finishing" with their products. They are relying on looks alone and the rest is, well, "too bad". Or, to quote them in anything they don't do, or don't do properly, "it's an FSX limitation". Tell that to PMDG, MilViz, Real Air, Flight Replica, A2A, Eaglesoft and Flight One (and I have probably left a couple out). Better that maybe you don't. They'd die laughing at the very thought. But it seems to be Carenado's Mantra whenever they don't feel like (or can't) doing something out of laziness or a lack of caring about their customer.

 

It's easy to say the above, so here are some examples that put something concrete to those accusations:

 

1. The Cessna 206's avionics switch goes down to turn on. IRL the switch should be pushed UP, not down, to turn on. Just like every other switch on that (and the majority of airplanes - this tends to be standardized for a reason).

 

2. The Cessna 210's transponder still does not (and never will have) the leading zero in the code. If you are flying with ATC (especially a non-live one like RC), and they ask you to squawk 0132, you're flight with them is finished because they won't know enough to give you a new code, as you are unable on the original code. If it's VATSIM, they can probably assign you a new code. But why should they have to?

 

3. In the original Cessna 208 release, if you flew the airplane by the book, your ITT's were in the red the entire time. It took a customer and a real 208 pilot's corroboration to fix that up and give us (in my opinion) the only really good remaining Carenado airplane out there.

 

4. The Cessna 337's aft engine fuel pressure readings don't work unless the engine is running. On the front, with your master on, mixture full rich and throttle at full (engine is not running - this is how you prime the engine IRL), you get an accurate fuel pressure reading of around 12 to 15 psi. The aft engine fuel pressure doesn't register at all using this technique unless the engine is running.

 

5. On the King Air, if you are following a GPS course, you must have a VOR station tuned in (and be within receiving range) to get GPS distance information. That's completely nuts! Also, your GS is missing from the EADI, which is also not correct and causes you to increase your scan at a critical time.

 

6. Again with the King Air, you have power failures where your electronics all go into a warning mode and the only way to get them back is to hit the RESET (except that doesn't work, so you have to actually cycle the Avionics switch off then on again). Imagine approaching minimums to an airport that's at 200 & 1 and that happens!

 

7. Apparently there is no ILS indicator on the T182 G1000. IF that's true (I can't confirm that because I don't have that airplane, and won't), then not only is the G1000 severely crippled from it's actual capabilities, it's crippled below that of steam gauges.

 

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. Now it's typical to have an airplane require patches when it first comes out, but you do NOT see mistakes of this nature last very long, if they even are present at all on almost any other developer. I had a problem with pitot-static icing in the Cera Bell 212. It was fixed that night. I had an issue with the XP Learjet (forget what it was now, but it was more complicated than the icing issue) - that was fixed within two nights. Worse, ALL of these mistakes have been reported to Carenado, yet not fixed. I know this because except in the case of the 182, I personally reported them, and I know others who have as well. How long does it take to reverse the logic in a switch to go up instead of down?? I'll bet 30 seconds or less. In some cases I have received the tired and too worn reply that, "it's an FSX limitation." Really? How come no other airplane on the market exhibits this kind of behaviour? Very strange. I've also had the reply that would suggest (in those words) that most simmers are not real pilots so they'll never notice. Really? Most seem to have, except for the ones that care about how a plane looks from the outside only. I've also heard the old adage that Carenado airplanes are less expensive. Really? They aren't less expensive than Just Flight - who directly state they are catering to the more casual simmer. That's fine. I have zero problems with that because they are being honest. But they also aren't trying to build glass cockpits which are beyond their capabilities and they don't leave you with the impression that you are getting a G1000 when in fact you are getting a newly dressed up default GPS gauge that has more colours on it. Carenado's prices are creeping up there, and they aren't that much less expensive than others. To add insult to injury, the one thing you can be sure of is that after the first 1 or (max 2) service packs for an airplane, it's done. If you still have a backwards operating switch, it ain't gettin' fixed after that. No matter how small a thing it might be to fix.

 

I wish Carenado would stick to steam planes and gauges. That is what they DO do well, and it is their niche. Trying to compete with the likes of F1 in functionality leaves them damaging their reputation (what's left of it with me) and leaves the customer having to replace a very modern, sophisticated instrument with older, 3rd party ones. So yeah, I understand fully what you mean Howard. It's not so much character that's lacking. It's caring and it's finishing what you have done. The F1 Cardinal is no more or less functional than the C206, and isn't quite as well done graphically. But I'll fly it any day because when I look at the panel, everything works as it should, and the immersion factor doesn't get knocked down a notch. And if you don't have immersion in a sim, then what do you have! Answer - some nice screen shots and maybe some wallpaper. I can get those for free from Airliners.net.

 

I will say one thing that Carenado HAS done right. They got themselves a top notch FDE guy in Bernt. Frankly, without that, they'd probably be dust by now.

 

No doubt this will be shot down in flames by those who are apologists for Carenado, and that's fine. But just don't complain about the next airplane that comes out and is full of bugs that may or may not get fixed. If you give Carenado a free pass on these things, why should they spend the extra time (therefore $$$), if there enough customers who don't care that it doesn't work, as long as it looks good. Carenado will always "look good". But until there are more posts like yours and the followers below Howard, looking good is about all you're going to have.

 

OK, fire away!

If you don't have it already and want a plane with lots of character, have a look at Mario Noriega's freeware P-180 at http://forum.avsim.n...-freeware-p180/. That little beauty has ton's of character, especially since you need to watch ITT's like a hawk or it'll bite you. Best freeware turboprop on AVSIM I think B)

I absolutely agree to the P180 being a superb sim plane with a very unique operating profile.

 

I'm tempted by this plane (was recently disappointed by the older PC12). Could you elaborate a littlle bit why you love it in a thread not too friendly to Carenado

Ah, the JetProp. Now that's a tough one to recommend since I love and hate it for being what it is, a great plane from Carenado. The latter means that you will need user mods and tweaks, otherwise it won't work properly in my eyes. One has to clearly state that, especially on that release.

 

Now if you have those mods running (get them in the Carenado forum part), it offers good fps, amazing textures and a nice mix of glass and analogue gauges. The sounds are great and I really like the FDE from Bernt Stolle, although I did apply a tweak to it for the fuel burn.

 

Is it frame rate friendly in spite of the glass cockpit ?

Yes, at least with RXP GPS units around, which may save some fps over a twin GPS setup with default (FSX internal) gauges.

 

What about the luminosity of the electronic display screens in a darker environment before FSX switches on the night textures ?

Good question. The G500 offers a brightness adjustment on the fly. I've flown her into and out of the night and was happy with the G500 display. The more prominent downside may be the rest of the cockpit, only being able to have the lights on or off. It looks great on the screenshots, but it may either be too much or not enough at times.

 

So the conclusion is that it needs tweaking, no way around that, but then is a great turbine cruiser. What does come in handy is the fact that Carenado offers a refund policy. So you get your money back if she doesn't float your boat.

 

Funny you've mentioned the PC-12. Yes, a good ship, but older and showing it's age. Still, doesn't need much tweaking at all, if any.

 

They (Carenado) are working on a TBM. So perhaps wait some more and get that one. I don't know about the planned avionics though. The G500 on the JetProp is nice with the RXP gauges, streaming their flight plan to it and then allowing flying with the terrain view.

 

I love the JetProp, even with the mods in mind, but that's just because the character got me.

but decided against posting this at the Carenado forum as my underwear would be in flames in no time from the "fan-boys" there who think looks are the only thing that matter in a flight sim.

 

No "flames", just an honest question. Why the "fan-boys" flame-bait? Everyone who disagrees with you is NOT a "fan-boy".

 

BTW, you and I have discussed this before, but items 4 and 5 are simply not correct. 4 was actually a switch mixup - it always worked if you knew which wrong switch to use, and was fixed long ago (the patch has been integrated into current releases and is available on Carenados site). And GPS distance displays just fine to a VOR waypoint on my system with no ground station tuned.

 

Honestly, looking at threads like this I don't see Carenado being given any "free passes", even amongst those of us who like some of their planes.

 

Scott

I absolutely agree to the P180 being a superb sim plane with a very unique operating profile.

 

 

Ah, the JetProp. Now that's a tough one to recommend since I love and hate it for being what it is, a great plane from Carenado. The latter means that you will need user mods and tweaks, otherwise it won't work properly in my eyes. One has to clearly state that, especially on that release.

 

Now if you have those mods running (get them in the Carenado forum part), it offers good fps, amazing textures and a nice mix of glass and analogue gauges. The sounds are great and I really like the FDE from Bernt Stolle, although I did apply a tweak to it for the fuel burn.

 

Is it frame rate friendly in spite of the glass cockpit ?

Yes, at least with RXP GPS units around, which may save some fps over a twin GPS setup with default (FSX internal) gauges.

 

What about the luminosity of the electronic display screens in a darker environment before FSX switches on the night textures ?

Good question. The G500 offers a brightness adjustment on the fly. I've flown her into and out of the night and was happy with the G500 display. The more prominent downside may be the rest of the cockpit, only being able to have the lights on or off. It looks great on the screenshots, but it may either be too much or not enough at times.

 

So the conclusion is that it needs tweaking, no way around that, but then is a great turbine cruiser. What does come in handy is the fact that Carenado offers a refund policy. So you get your money back if she doesn't float your boat.

 

Funny you've mentioned the PC-12. Yes, a good ship, but older and showing it's age. Still, doesn't need much tweaking at all, if any.

 

They (Carenado) are working on a TBM. So perhaps wait some more and get that one. I don't know about the planned avionics though. The G500 on the JetProp is nice with the RXP gauges, streaming their flight plan to it and then allowing flying with the terrain view.

 

I love the JetProp, even with the mods in mind, but that's just because the character got me.

 

Thanks again, very interesting observations. Actually I'm more interested by a good turbprop for air taxiing than by the glass cockpit concept. And then the Socata 700 and 850 have a 3 display G1000 which may be a litlle rich for my present rig blood .

 

Didn't know that the XP Reality was FR friendlier than the default GPS.I may have to try with the Legacy which slightly stutters on my rig (even the low polys one).

 

For the luminosity, most of the glass displays were barely readable at dusk in fs9...

Then I have the Carenado C185 and Grand Caravan which I don't fly very much and the C340, Seneca and Mentor which I've uninstalled!

Fully agreed on the other great planes, most of all the Katana being a jewel even within that line. Outstanding release from Marcel Felde.

 

However, the Carenado C337 is well done in my eyes, seems like you've missed her so far. Not much tweaking involved. ^_^

 

Didn't know that the XP Reality was FR friendlier than the default GPS.

Yeah, that's my impression so far. That external exe seems to help, even more so on twin GPS setups.

 

To be more precise, we are talking about a smaller fps impact in regard to FSX internal gauges. This is just in case somebody reads it like a magic trick on FSX character traits. No, it isn't, but one loses less fps, that's all.

 

For the luminosity, most of the glass displays were barely readable at dusk in fs9...

Well, Carenado even seems to render the default setting to be too bright. On the G500 in the JetProp, setting the brightness down to 50 or 60 % helps a lot. Other than that, it may just be another glass gauge with small fonts. So, depending on the viewpoint, you may want to operate the popup for more precise readings and input.

 

Did I already mention that she needs tweaking? Well, even for the 2D popup clickspot that is. :o Don't ask me why, but that's the case. <_<

 

Good point on the TBM avionics. Well, the glass on the JetProp is light and doesn't eat much fps. For example, the one on the A36 came in way heavier.

The 337 is something I'm looking into as well. I did a couple of repaints for the FSD FS9 O2A in its own time . Looking forward to fly it over NorCal in the forthcoming OrbX scenery in the CDF liveries .

The C337 is a sure shot in my eyes. Don't expect deep systems, but do expect some character for sure. The FDE comes from Bernt Stolle and one can even add the RXP GPS.

 

An easy plane, very nice fps and I would only wish for the latest landing lights and some VC rain effect.

I enjoy flying the C337 and the V-tailed Bonanza as well. Both have that "character", in my opinion. But I'll definitely need to look for the Bernt update for the C185, though.

Some great posts here guys. I hope I'm not seen as a war monger. It was not my intention to bash Carenado, but more a way of trying to establish whether my over pedantic nature was doing an injustice to Carenado, it seems not. Hey CoolP, I will investigate the 337 off your recommendation. In the meantime, I have asked Flight 1 for a refund for my purchase, I hope they play ball.

 

BTW, it has just occurred to me, that when I really started getting 'into' FSX I thought Carenado was the dog's doodahs and could not understand guys with any kind of criticism towards them. Of course as we all know, as our experience increases so does our understanding and, of course in particular, our expectations.

When I flew RW I learned to fly high-wings (C152) and then went to low wings (PA28 Warrior II and Archer) because the club I joined didn't have hardly any high-wings. I found the low-wings boring...very boring. I finally started flying the C182 and got a smile back on my face.

 

I love the Carenado C337. It flies very, very much like a heavier RW C182...sways on final, lots of momentum, great rotation and flair. Brings back memories. Bernt was kind enough to make a C182Q FDE out of the T182T FDE for me and now it flies so well...very responsive in FSX 'air'. I also love the rattles in the C337. I got the T182T but just not a fan of all glass on small airplanes. It's probably the last glass airplane I'll buy for some time.

 

I think that when you buy an airplane and they add a document with it that talks about it, it adds something to it. RealAir does that. They talk about the difficulties, tradeoffs, flying characteristics, things to look out for. You get the pride and enthusiasm. It would be nice...more than nice...to get something like that from Carenado. Their pride, their excitement, the nuance. Bernt is the bright spot...engaged, active, interested. Very glad he's working with them.

Carenado - Good to look at and "sit in" but to fly? No.

..... Eaglesoft

 

Lets not go there. Their Citation X 2.0 Extreme is a most frustrating thing to come to grips with yet its also the most enjoyable corporate jet I have and I love flying it. I'm still finding new and interesting things in the cockpit. Shes full of character.

 

I liken my Carenado C90 to a supermodel. She's gorgeous to look at but not much fun in bed.

Well, it also depends on what kind of airplane you like to fly....

 

I've removed quite a number of airplanes from my hangar, but I still

fly the Carenado C182Q, the C337, and F33 Bonanza (the latter with RXP FLT and FLN gauges).

 

That, coupled with the RealAir Scout and Lancair, the Baytower RV7, and the Flight1 Mustang

pretty much makes up my favorites for FSX.