^^^ I completely agree with your point about PMDG but the whole part of Lockheed and P3D is completely not true.

 

Most members here know LM does not own full rights to ESP. Microsoft's agreement with LM does not allow them to sell an entertainment license.

Even if LM could do that they would not. They are not an entertainment/software company. They are the world's largest defense contractor. Their contracts are in the hundreds of millions and even billions of dollars. A flight simulator for the entertainment industry does not pale in comparison.

If LM could generate millions of dollars with P3d in the entertainment market don't you think Microsoft would still be in the business. They got out because the pencil pushers said its not enough for them to dabble in. Bill Gates was a flight Sim fan. He probably kept the franchise going for as long as it did. Look what happen to it now that he's gone.

Well said Dave...

There are no T7 screenshots yet and that release was anticipated to 2012 :rolleyes: . I can assume you can sit back and chilll with the 747v2 it will take a long time, if it will be untill this summer as you said I will be very surprised.

 

Good day

 

Yaniv Igal,

Considering the fact that they told us the 747V2 is halfway there, developping in the shadow, along with the 777 whom is entering the final stages of production..

 

You can bet sometime around the summer that they're going to hit us with a cluster release. My two cents anyway.

 

Their market: Rabid Flight Sim Fanatics. The kind of Flight Simmer who will a) demand as close to reality as can be achieved within the platform we have and B) are willing to pay for the privilege of owning a license to use such a product.

 

 

Just thought I'd make a bit of correction to that statement.

 

Looking forward to the T7 and 747-v2 B)

There are no T7 screenshots yet and that release was anticipated to 2012 .

Did you not see the new screen shots I linked in the following post?

They were initially distributed by some users in a thread in the PMDG General Forum, but they are all together here on AirDailyX.

Can't wait for the 744 V2.

 

 

Peter

Most members here know LM does not own full rights to ESP. Microsoft's agreement with LM does not allow them to sell an entertainment license.

Even if LM could do that they would not. They are not an entertainment/software company. They are the world's largest defense contractor. Their contracts are in the hundreds of millions and even billions of dollars. A flight simulator for the entertainment industry does not pale in comparison.

If LM could generate millions of dollars with P3d in the entertainment market don't you think Microsoft would still be in the business. They got out because the pencil pushers said its not enough for them to dabble in. Bill Gates was a flight Sim fan. He probably kept the franchise going for as long as it did. Look what happen to it now that he's gone.

 

I can kind of concur with you, but not totally.

 

The answer to this questions is called "opportunity cost". The idea is, that when you can make money from doing something, you check whether you might not lose more money by not doing something else.

 

For example, if I have a thousand bucks for investment, I can buy an imaginary poster printer and sell posters. I could make 1000 bucks a month in pure profit.

I could also buy a merchandise printer for printing mugs, flashdrives etc. with logos and such. I could make 2000 bucks a year.

If I decided that I will do posters, I have to add the cost of not making 2000 bucks profit to my calculations. I would calculate that this business is not viable since I am negative 1000 bucks on the whole deal. Whereas if I print merchandise, I consider a cost of losing 1000 bucks profit, which still leaves me with 1000 bucks positive.

 

 

Anyway the situation around FS is a bit tricky.

There is the fact that you state, LM is a big, defense contractor company. It makes little sense for them to invest in a commercial sim game. They are much better off investing in what they do already.

Microsoft, on the other hand, could not fully get into commercial use of FS based as well as LM, since they are not defense contractors and airplane manufacturers themselves. They would have to invest massively to have it comparable. So they sold the commercial license and code to LM.

 

Now, you say that if there was a market to make money with FS, MS would still be doing it. They tried, they never forfeited the license for FSX/ESP/P3D for entertainment, and tried Flight. It failed, true... and MS decided to go make money elsewhere.

But I still think there is a chance for MSFS series. All that is needed, is for MS to sell a license for entertainment use to a different company with different opportunity cost base. One that could not be rather investing into Office and Windows. Ideally, this would happen through LM, so said company can take advantage of LMs work that went into P3D and meanwhile keep LM from bothering with all the mundane parts of releasing a simulator game. I think that a company such as Aerosoft might be a good candidate for this in fact.

Now, you say that if there was a market to make money with FS, MS would still be doing it. They tried, they never forfeited the license for FSX/ESP/P3D for entertainment, and tried Flight. It failed, true... and MS decided to go make money elsewhere.

But I still think there is a chance for MSFS series. All that is needed, is for MS to sell a license for entertainment use to a different company with different opportunity cost base. One that could not be rather investing into Office and Windows. Ideally, this would happen through LM, so said company can take advantage of LMs work that went into P3D and meanwhile keep LM from bothering with all the mundane parts of releasing a simulator game. I think that a company such as Aerosoft might be a good candidate for this in fact.

 

I agree with this as well. No one says someone cant step in and do the retail side of P3D be it MS or someone who licenses it from LM and MS. However it works and is financially viable. Dont discount anything. Its hope for flight simming future. Not discrediting XPX or any other sim either, as when there is competition, there is a further drive to make it better.

 

As a side point, Look at the night lighting in that 747 video! Wish I had that AND had smooth frames with its high quality. lol

I never said there is no money to be made with a flight simulator. Companies like PMDG and Orbx seem like they are doing very well with just the addon side of it. What I said was responding specifically to why LM can not release an entertainment license. I wish Bill Gates can pull some change out of his couch and invest in a company like PMDG and Orbx to create one (can you imagine that partnership).

 

My original post was responding to a gentleman saying LM needs to get their "heads out of places where the sun does not shine" and release a "light" entertainment license. I simply explained why it was not possible for LM to do this. My post was never meant to say nobody could create a business model to turn a profit.

 

Congratulations!

 

I believe the B737 BBJ and B747 V2 are shown in this recent screen shot.

 

Do you really think that 777-200 is a 737BBJ?

 

Ray

We don't know when 777 is scheduled for release, so let's not speculate about 747. The reason why PMDG is holding updates lies in past, when NGX was about to be released. There was plenty of people looking for mistakes, errors etc in previews. Never ending comparisons of random photos found on web with presented model were turning every thread into flame war, and team had to focus on moderating forum instead of coding. 747 is in development, and it will be released after 777, that's all we know

 

EDIT:

 

If they really want to finally show us something, that's great news!

 

EDIT2:

 

This was my 747th post, lets hope it's good sign!!

 

You're now up to 767 posts, so maybe that isn't such a good sign? LOL, just joking!!!

Do you really think that 777-200 is a 737BBJ?

 

Ray

 

No he talked about the plane in the back.

 

Eric

Hello All!

 

 

 

 

The new PMDG 747 V2 has lain in the shadow of it's precursor (the 777) since it was announced. There have been (as far as I am aware of) no screenshots and really not a lot of info. It has been posted, however, that release is scheduled for before this summer. Is this a choice to release no screenshots and info, or has PMDG not started work on it yet. It is, as far as I understand, a complete rebuild of the 747, NGX/777 style. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

 

 

 

-abasa12

 

 

Robert stated in the interview last week that the 747v2 is 50% done. How long that means till its done, who knows. He said it and the T7 will be released this year.

 

I can kind of concur with you, but not totally.

 

The answer to this questions is called "opportunity cost". The idea is, that when you can make money from doing something, you check whether you might not lose more money by not doing something else.

 

For example, if I have a thousand bucks for investment, I can buy an imaginary poster printer and sell posters. I could make 1000 bucks a month in pure profit.

I could also buy a merchandise printer for printing mugs, flashdrives etc. with logos and such. I could make 2000 bucks a year.

If I decided that I will do posters, I have to add the cost of not making 2000 bucks profit to my calculations. I would calculate that this business is not viable since I am negative 1000 bucks on the whole deal. Whereas if I print merchandise, I consider a cost of losing 1000 bucks profit, which still leaves me with 1000 bucks positive.

 

 

Anyway the situation around FS is a bit tricky.

There is the fact that you state, LM is a big, defense contractor company. It makes little sense for them to invest in a commercial sim game. They are much better off investing in what they do already.

Microsoft, on the other hand, could not fully get into commercial use of FS based as well as LM, since they are not defense contractors and airplane manufacturers themselves. They would have to invest massively to have it comparable. So they sold the commercial license and code to LM.

 

Now, you say that if there was a market to make money with FS, MS would still be doing it. They tried, they never forfeited the license for FSX/ESP/P3D for entertainment, and tried Flight. It failed, true... and MS decided to go make money elsewhere.

But I still think there is a chance for MSFS series. All that is needed, is for MS to sell a license for entertainment use to a different company with different opportunity cost base. One that could not be rather investing into Office and Windows. Ideally, this would happen through LM, so said company can take advantage of LMs work that went into P3D and meanwhile keep LM from bothering with all the mundane parts of releasing a simulator game. I think that a company such as Aerosoft might be a good candidate for this in fact.

 

This is a great analysis, and no doubt accurate.

 

The problem is really one of scale. Many large companies simply can't sustain investment in things that don't have the ROI to justify the investment, as you say.

 

Historically, that has led to smaller companies, that don't need as large a return to justify the investment, taking over the market left empty.

 

I think the size of audience for FSX is sufficient and stable enough to warrant its further substantial development outside the goals of more casual "entertainment" that Flight was shooting for.

 

If there were some way for all the current third-party developers to pool resources sufficiently to justify combined investment in such a venture, or for them collectively to attract or find (Kickstarter?) sufficient investment, I'm sure the results would be sustained though lower profitability.

 

The heaviest lifting would be moving FSX to 64-bit, hopefully the market LM is in can subsidize that step.

 

Licensing the results after that for the present FSX audience would be the ideal next step.

 

It's kind of how things (used to?) work: government funds R&D which leads to innovation that can then be used in the private sector for a variety of profitable and entertaining ventures. We've lost that engine of progress over the last thirty years.