.. oh .... oh ... & I thought flight simulator is only a hobby, & AVSIM as well as all the other flight simulator sites are nothing but a sanctuary for us to retreat when everything is boiling out on the real world, I guess I'm kind on naive, ha

 

Peace4Sim :give_rose:

I am shocked at the descision to remove Word Not Allowed, as his guide has been a great help to me setting uo FSX, but considering the evidence given by Stephen, I think it was a nessecary action taken by the Admin team.

 

Hopefully we can get over the arguing and continue using the forum as a place to seek and give advice.

This whole situation is just sad.

 

That's probably the best thing that could be said about the whole situation.

 

I'm not a frequent member here, but it would be hard to miss certain things about this situation:

 

1) First off, the admins have done and continue to do an amazing job at building this site into, let's face it, an unequaled resource in the world of Flight Simulation. I've rarely run across a phenomenon where, within a given hobby or interest, there is one website/forum that so towers over everything else out there that one can almost say "there is no second." Remember when the site crashed, and was offline for far too long? I think a lot of MSFS fans went through withdrawal around that time. It would have been easy to just walk away from the wreckage, and we need to give the admins great respect for all they did bringing the site back.

 

2) Second, Word Not Allowed, himself, provided an unequalled resoursce for Flight Sim lovers. As ivo09 pointed out a few posts ago, I have often gone looking for solutions to problems I encounter, and find a contribution by Word Not Allowed from some time ago to be just what I needed. And I've found his hardware and configuration guide of immense help, both in my earlier days here, and in the past couple of weeks when I've gotten back into the swing of things with a new high-end laptop. I believe he, as well, is worthy of great respect.

 

Now, even with those two statements as given, if the circumstances concerning EULA matters are correct -- in other words, if Word Not Allowed not only continued to use this site to spread information on how to circumvent legal agreements, but made it clear that he would continue to do so no matter what the admins thought -- then I see they had little recourse but to remove him as a member. To me, it would be no different than a user, no matter how important a contributior he or she may have been, who persisted in posting information about how to download pirated versions of commercial software and flat-out told the site-owners that he or she was going to keep doing it regardless of the rules. In such cases, there's really nothing you can do but bar the member.

 

Now, given the necessity of that decision, was it handled well? Personally, I would not have taken the course of airing all the "dirty laundry" concerning the split, particularly when it comes to disparaging his character in circumstances long before the EULA matter. And I speak from personal experience: for the past fifteen years or so, I've been the admin of an e-mail list in a different field of interest and...well, the reason I would not have done it now is, ironically, because I did it once in the past, with unfortunate results. In that case, as with Word Not Allowed here, it was a matter of a user who was a major contributor to the list but who clearly felt free to "play by his own rules," and made it clear, in response to my repeated private requests to change his behavior, that I should get stuffed. There was little question that he had to go; but I found that taking a similar approach as here, where I announced the permanent ban publicly after he had been removed, and went into detail about (in my opinion) his perceived character failings and why he was never going to be allowed back, was probably the worst thing I could have done. Sure, it made me feel righteous, but it struck many members as if I was "piling on" when the person I was attacking (excuse me, I meant "telling the truth about") had no way to respond, and it didn't help when I laid down a zero-tolerance policy of questioning my decision in the matter (along the lines of "there is no free speech here, I set whichever rules seem best to me, and, if enough of you don't like it, I can always close the place down" -- sound familiar?). That list was, at the time, a dominant resource in its field; although it remains an ongoing resource, it is dominant no longer; I managed to alienate enough members that, over the following years, people found it easy to drift away. I'm not saying that the same will happen to AVSim -- which is, after all, a much larger and more multi-faceted operation than my list -- but I don't think tearing down the reputation of someone who contributed so much to this place is a particularly positive move. Out of respect for the contributions Word Not Allowed made here, I think he should have been allowed a departure of dignified silence (unless he himself were to launch an initial broadside on his site, which would clearly justify a "full-disclosure" reply...but which he had not done up until the point your announcement appeared, although I understand he posted something -- which I haven't yet seen -- while I was drafting this comment). What would be wrong with saying, when pressed, that "Word Not Allowed is no longer affiliated with this site; he made it clear he could not comply with our rules about not violating the P3D EULA, and therefore has moved on" -- was it really necessary to essentially declare that "even though you may not have realized it, he was nothing but a troublemaker who's behaved like a jerk and been a thorn in our side for years, and we're better off now that the creep is gone for good",,,? Because that, to my mind, was the way this whole approach came across. However necessary the step of removal might have been, surely there must have been a better way to handle it.

Condolences to Paul, I am sure a lot of us here have lost a member of our family and relate to what Paul is going through. I am not taking sides here but I don't think Srdan is claiming that his guide is all his own work. In it if i remember he does thank others who have contributed and I got the impression he was just combining a lot of peoples work into one guide. Yes he might of come across as being a bit sharp to some people but it cannot be easy being a moderator here. Shame he has been banned, I for one will miss his input.

Paul... many condolences for your recent loss. I lost both of my parents somes years ago. Not easy. My thoughts are with you.

 

Regarding Word Not Allowed...

 

I'm a moderator on a different developer/publishers flight sim forum. They are very well known. I've been a moderator for many years, with an embarrassingly high number of posts.

 

Therefore I fully appreciate how difficult moderation can be. You would be shocked to hear of some of the things I've had to deal with.

 

However, I'm not sure I would have posted such an excessive indictment of a banned member. Such things are best kept in private. I don't accept the conspiracy theory avoidance hypothesis.

 

The problem, when you openly post such a critical indictment, is that the other party is not in a position to defend themselves, It's punishment, and then rub salt in the wounds too. That in my view is somewhat excessive.

 

A simple notification that the member in question had been banned would have been sufficient. I'm sure he deserved his ban, but given Word Not Allowed's positive cotribution to Avsim over the years, I would say he deserved at the very least, a PRIVATE bashing, not a public one.

@Helen_P

 

Make this lovely lady a moderator immediately. We need the female influence to calm down our testosterone. :wink:

@Helen_P

 

Make this lovely lady a moderator immediately. We need the female influence to calm down our testosterone. :wink:

 

My vote goes to Summer1.

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

 

As I saw many posts about this being loss and how people are suprised and sad, I can't resist to express my opinion.

 

I fully support this decision. Are you shocked? Don't be. With joining any forum you have to agree with it's rules and if you became moderator and part of the staff, you'll get much much more on your shoulders. Your actions are not only yours anymore, but rather representing whole forum and people behind it. Not to mention that everytime you're part of such community, you need to follow some untold rules in regards of human interaction, let's say some politeness. And we all know that line about what comes with great power.

 

People need to understand that just because you know something, doesn't make you untouchable superman or puts you in position, where you can insult people or be disrespectful to other members. If you want respect, give respect.

 

And one last thing about this so called "loss". Flightsim community (or any other in general) NEVER depend and NEVER WILL depend on just ONE member. There are hundreds of people willing to help eachother with sizeable knowledge of their hobby and removal of one member is not going to affect our lives or our hobby in any way.

After reading through this thread and Word Not Allowed's blog it has definitely left a sour taste in my mouth. I do see two sides in this story.

 

I can understand where AVSIM would stand if a link on their site was having people break a EULA (have not read the doc or the EULA) but surely referring to his blog as a way of poaching users from AVSIM is slightly absurd. I think AVSIM is probably the largest flight sim community and I don't expect a blog run by a single person to change that in any dramatic fashion. Looking in my signature right now I have my youtube channel and even in this topic plenty of people have links to theirs and others websites

 

My vote goes to Summer1.

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

Mine too. Ops, I forgot, she is banned too...

I think this thread is completely appropriate. Seems like Word Not Allowed has a bit of an ego problem, and one could easily see posts by him on other Flight Sim fora where he plays the martyr. Best to get the Avsim side of things out there ASAP and let the simming, forum-dwelling public make their own mind up.

 

I see internet forums as their owner's houses. You don't go into someone's house and act like an idiot, talk down to the other house residents, or take credit for the awesome deck addition and jacuzzi that the homeowner and his family installed last summer. If you do, be prepared to be shown the door, with or without a strategically implanted foot in your tailpipe.

 

I love the first amendment to the US Constitution, but no part of "Congress shall make no law..." translates into "Internet forums shall make no rule".

Thanks, Ian (WotanUK). It's been a hard month in a number of ways.

 

All the Best,

Hi Paul,

 

My condolences as well. I am hoping you may reconsider staying on as a moderator. I personally have been helped by you on over-clocking issues and many others, and your guide on FSX HW/SW is top notch. I have surfing everywhere on FSX tweaks, but yours is the first one that really explain and add a few items that I did not know.

 

Regards,

Okay, I have read both sides of the story, which always is a good thing. I think I know enough. Enough to NOT say anything about it anymore and to only read the posts that really interest me and for which I visit this forum... ^_^ Who is waiting for MY view on all this anyway...?!? B)

Nothing like a soap opera to spice up an otherwise ordinary day.

 

Guess it is hard for people to understand that they are guests in these forums and that they should behave accordingly. If they don't like the AVSIM way of doing things there are plenty of other forums out there, or even better, start your own forum and see if you can do any better.

 

Like all things in life AVSIM is a mixed blessing. By attracting the largest crowd in the flight sim world it becomes a slice of life place. Human nature is what it is, and here on AVSIM we can observe it unfold in all its glory - or in many cases complete lack of.

 

Having said that I think hanging someone out to dry like this is unworthy of a place like this. Sometimes it is better to turn the other cheek and just let it go.

 

I bet Word Not Allowed's getting a lot of hits on his website.

 

:rolleyes: