fired him ONLY for abusing his power and not being a team player, but the EULA reason is really censorship.

 

Censorship... Did you read our ToS'? There is no such thing as free speech here. Therefore, there is no such thing as "censorship". But I will tell you what Henri, you send me a check for $15,000 so we can cover our legal liabilities on your behalf, and we will let these forums be free of any moderation at all. And, of course, you would have to send us that money once a year for the length of time these forums remained open. Are you willing to do that? I thought not.

 

It has been a recurring theme... We censor folks and step on freedom of speech. Interestingly enough, when we volunteer to open up the forums with no moderation, no one is willing to pay the legal retainers that would be required to do that.

Tom and I have taken the discussion to PM, and are both still in one piece. :smile:

...banning someone for mostly for encouraging the violation of a EULA

 

My understanding is that he was not banned for that. But he was banned for persistently beaching AVSIM's policy on that matter, despite having been repeatedly warned. Any members of any organisation should abide by its rules. If they can't then they should leave voluntarily. If they don't they can expect to be banned.

 

It appears that Word Not Allowed thought he was above the rules.

Tom and I have taken the discussion to PM, and are both still in one piece. :smile:

I too have found that the best way to communicate with Tom in the past when faced with a misunderstanding.

I am fairly new here although fs flying since 86 so my contribution is hardly 2cents.

 

Word Not Allowed sure made an invaluable contribution to our hobby, and that should always be valued. At the same time, I cant imagine what moderators go through and the work it entails. Im only a manager of a hub for a VA, but nothing like what they have to manage to a very massive flight sim forum that is very well known. So that said I am neutral to both sides, as I dont know the entire facts nor do I wish to know every detail. The intro said enough.

 

Its been my experience in life however that warnings if not heeded carry a fine or some temporary punishment, and if someone is willing to see changes and all get along after this punishment they are invited back. If it happens again, then perhaps a more severe punishment is due. Its where the 3 strike rule always gets said. If we cant forgive one another, move along and get along then there really is no progression and contribution to anything. We can draw strength from one another.

Permanent ban seems like he just committed murder. But like I said, I dont claim to know the whole story. Im sure there is many behind the scene conversations that took place and are taking place.

All in my humble opinion.

 

Paul, I can sympathize for you and express my best wishes that you have the strength to get through the very trying times.

I'm surprised reading about the ban. I won't question Word Not Allowed's temper, but, for me just interacting through posts, it was manageable and sometimes even welcome. Fire produces light and heat. Well, just means that I don't know any internals, so 75% of Stephen's opening post are new to me. :mellow:

 

But I'll raise my hat for playing open and I truly understand that the folks running the Avsim services deserve some credit for their work not producing their monthly outcome in most cases and having to deal with us.

 

And, most of all, it's sad reading about the circumstances Paul has to go through. Good luck on that, Paul. Times will get better.

Censorship... Did you read our ToS'? There is no such thing as free speech here. Therefore, there is no such thing as "censorship". But I will tell you what Henri, you send me a check for $15,000 so we can cover our legal liabilities on your behalf, and we will let these forums be free of any moderation at all. And, of course, you would have to send us that money once a year for the length of time these forums remained open. Are you willing to do that? I thought not.

 

 

Yes, I guess that you are right, Tom. But I think that it is a shame that in the US, corporations (not you) can use the fear of litigation to apply censorship to prevent criticism of their possibly "illegal" policies. I realize that your decision to ban Word Not Allowed may have been unavoidable, but (just second-guessing here) I personally would have preferred that you had avoided using the "unmentionable" reason already mentioned. OTOH thanks for beng frank about it.

 

For the record, let me say that I appreciate the work that you guys do here, as well as the helful members and I read the AVSIM forums twice a day (as well as another forum site),

 

Henri

Ladies and Gents, this chewing gum has lost its taste, so let's just spit it out and carry on with our lives, shall we? It might be a good idea to lock this thread as it doesn't seem to be constructive in any way.

 

As I understand Stephen only wanted to share what happened, and why it happened. He didn't ask for opinions, questioning, or judgments. After all it doesn't affect anyone on an individual level, so let's not make it personal. There are more than enough challenges and fights out there...

Ladies and Gents, this chewing gum has lost its taste, so let's just spit it out and carry on with our lives, shall we? It might be a good idea to lock this thread as it doesn't seem to be constructive in any way.

 

As I understand Stephen only wanted to share what happened, and why it happened. He didn't ask for opinions, questioning, or judgments. After all it doesn't affect anyone on an individual level, so let's not make it personal. There are more than enough challenges and fights out there...

 

:mellow:

sshhh :Secret:

 

Topic created and left open by a moderator.With other moderators taking part in the discussion.

I am a new member, I cant be judgmental. I had very few interactions with Word Not Allowed about how to set cert_ain settings. But reading all the reasons behind this, I think I like the way AVSIM manages their forum.

Ladies and Gents, this chewing gum has lost its taste, so let's just spit it out and carry on with our lives, shall we? It might be a good idea to lock this thread as it doesn't seem to be constructive in any way.

 

As I understand Stephen only wanted to share what happened, and why it happened. He didn't ask for opinions, questioning, or judgments. After all it doesn't affect anyone on an individual level, so let's not make it personal. There are more than enough challenges and fights out there...

 

Did Tom already appoint you as a staff member? I'm on Tapatalk and can't see if you have a staff banner or not but by your tone, I would expect to see one.

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

 

"Wow, you totally took that in a direction that I didn't intend. But, thanks for reading into it more than was intended and making some really stretch assumptions. You have been here all of 9 days and you are judging 17 years of our way of running AVSIM. And, at 62, I kind of take offense at your CONDESCENDING "boys" statement."

 

Tom you are spot on

 

 

Amazes me how you have to keep defending yourself, it takes an amazing amount of work to keep this forum running and ask nothing in return I for one stand behind any decisions you and your staff make.

Please let me start of by saying that I have read EVERY SINGLE POST in this thread, and while I do agree with some of the members, and Not agree with some of the members, I do fully agree with the staff and the way that they handled things. I never had the opportunity to meet Word Not Allowed, or use any of his guides (as I am sure some of them would have been helpful as I am currently having my own FSX problems), but for the most part I agree. What had to be done, was done. He didn't want to play nicely, so he was TOLD to leave when he refused to go quietly.

 

Now on to the meat of my reply...

 

Censorship... Did you read our ToS'? There is no such thing as free speech here. Therefore, there is no such thing as "censorship". But I will tell you what Henri, you send me a check for $15,000 so we can cover our legal liabilities on your behalf, and we will let these forums be free of any moderation at all. And, of course, you would have to send us that money once a year for the length of time these forums remained open. Are you willing to do that? I thought not.

 

It has been a recurring theme... We censor folks and step on freedom of speech. Interestingly enough, when we volunteer to open up the forums with no moderation, no one is willing to pay the legal retainers that would be required to do that.

 

Per the AVSIM TOS: and I quote if I may:

 

Indemnification: You Indemnify AVSIM: If, by your actions or words, AVSIM is litigated against in any form, or otherwise faces legal measures, you agree to fully indemnify and protect AVSIM. You agree that you will be responsible for all fees associated with AVSIM defending itself as a result of your actions or words.

 

 

Meaning... if AVSIM gets sued because of something you say, AVSIM (the company) can, and will seek reimbursement for any and all legal fees associated to your actions / posts / downloads / uploads. I do not have that kind of money, so please, go easy on me when you sue me.

 

My understanding is that he was not banned for that. But he was banned for persistently beaching AVSIM's policy on that matter, despite having been repeatedly warned. Any members of any organisation should abide by its rules. If they can't then they should leave voluntarily. If they don't they can expect to be banned.

 

It appears that Word Not Allowed thought he was above the rules.

 

I fully agree with this.

 

 

 

 

 

Verbatim Microsoft's Flight Simulator X EULA: (If I may provide it, if the moderators want to remove it, do so as you see fit)

 

 

6. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways. You may not

 

·

work around any technical limitations in the software;

·

reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, except and only to the extent that applicable law expressly permits, despite this limitation;

·

make more copies of the software than specified in this agreement or allowed by applicable law, despite this limitation;

·

publish the software for others to copy;

·

rent, lease or lend the software; or

·

use the software for commercial software hosting services.

 

 

Word Not Allowed repeated broke this rule from Microsoft and may be liable for punitive damages, though I SERIOUSLY doubt that Microsoft will ever do anything about it... he was trying to tell others how to take elements from FSX and put it into P3D as we are some sort of Developers ourselves. I know that I am not (other than adding scenery to FS9 and or FSX that I create mainly for myself, and downloaded that others made available).

 

If you want to break your EULA, KEEP YOUR FREAKING MOUTH SHUT AND DON'T TELL PEOPLE WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO, ARE DOING, OR HAVE DONE.

Being a moderator on MSFlights.net which we promote AVSIM many times, I have to sadly agree with Tom Allensworth, in fact considering the amount of warnings it seems Mr.Word Not Allowed had received was more than generous at least in my eyes. There are 2 things that would have insured his immediate departure from our site (not any any particular order).....

 

1. Poaching of community members (this is one of the worst things anyone can do next to hacking)

 

2. Breaking other companies EULA's and instructing other members to do the same (this is asking for a major & expensive lawsuit)

 

 

Mr. Allensworth there have been sometimes where you and I have not seen eye to eye but in this respect I have to agree with you and the rest of your teams decision to permanently banish Mr.Word Not Allowed from AVSIM. I do not say this lightly and carry a heavy sense of disappointment, I will be missing Word Not Allowed, he did help me tweak FSX for the better and was indeed a valued member by the community. I wish you an your team the best of luck in finding a new moderator, sadly even if I had the master technical knowledge on FSX I could not apply as there would be a potential conflict of interest.

Please let me start of by saying that I have read EVERY SINGLE POST in this thread, and while I do agree with some of the members, and Not agree with some of the members, I do fully agree with the staff and the way that they handled things. I never had the opportunity to meet Word Not Allowed, or use any of his guides (as I am sure some of them would have been helpful as I am currently having my own FSX problems), but for the most part I agree. What had to be done, was done. He didn't want to play nicely, so he was TOLD to leave when he refused to go quietly.

 

Now on to the meat of my reply...

 

 

 

Per the AVSIM TOS: and I quote if I may:

 

 

 

 

Meaning... if AVSIM gets sued because of something you say, AVSIM (the company) can, and will seek reimbursement for any and all legal fees associated to your actions / posts / downloads / uploads. I do not have that kind of money, so please, go easy on me when you sue me.

 

 

 

I fully agree with this.

 

 

 

 

 

Verbatim Microsoft's Flight Simulator X EULA: (If I may provide it, if the moderators want to remove it, do so as you see fit)

 

 

 

 

 

Word Not Allowed repeated broke this rule from Microsoft and may be liable for punitive damages, though I SERIOUSLY doubt that Microsoft will ever do anything about it... he was trying to tell others how to take elements from FSX and put it into P3D as we are some sort of Developers ourselves. I know that I am not (other than adding scenery to FS9 and or FSX that I create mainly for myself, and downloaded that others made available).

 

If you want to break your EULA, KEEP YOUR FREAKING MOUTH SHUT AND DON'T TELL PEOPLE WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO, ARE DOING, OR HAVE DONE.

 

If we go strictly by what that clause in FSX's EULA says, then we need to pack things up and call it a night. Shut our hobby down, because tweaks such as the DX10 shader fix, findings by Bojote when he went poking through the files, etc etc, would be considered reverse engineering, decompiling or even trying to get around FSX's technical limitations would be a flagrant violation of the EULA.

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2