Do you have any other tweaks applied then? I've tested around at several airports with the NGX but the FPS is constantly better during daytime. Weird.

 

My FPS is higher at 1200Z than at 1900Z in EKCH (Gate A20 VC NGX C&D) . Normally i have 30-32FPS (1200Z) - vs 26-27fps at (1900Z). With OP=1 i am at 41-42FPS at 1200Z and around 37-38 FPS at 1900Z 

 

No other tweaks what so ever

 

Michael Moe 

My FPS is higher at 1200Z than at 1900Z in EKCH (Gate A20 VC NGX C&D) . Normally i have 30-32FPS (1200Z) - vs 26-27fps at (1900Z). With OP=1 i am at 41-42FPS at 1200Z and around 37-38 FPS at 1900Z 

 

No other tweaks what so ever

 

Michael Moe 

 

Thanks for replying. Yes, maybe I was to quick on the trigger, it seems like I have the same behavior as you do, dropping around 5-6 FPS depending on the time of day. But just getting 25 FPS in the NGX at FlyTampa Copenhagen with FTX Global+Vector+OpenLC +ASN is a victory!

Ok, FPS are great, but how to make P3D smooth, since i can't use half refresh rate in inspector?? 

How do you guys obtain a smooth experience????

That's just impossible to tell you. Every PC is different. You have to find what works for you.

 

Saddly there is so much miss information and even in this topic there is loads of it. If your flying the PMDG 777/NG have a look at my sig, it might help?

Its been updated with this amazing tweak.

Ok, FPS are great, but how to make P3D smooth, since i can't use half refresh rate in inspector?? 

How do you guys obtain a smooth experience????

 

The right in-game menu slider settings with FPS locked at 33 and triple buffering on.  I don't use NI at all.  Smooth as glass for me.  I never stutter except if I arrive at an airport that I haven't been to and the shader cache has to build.  The sim will pause for a half second while it compiles the shaders.   Other than that, I am smooth whether it is a clear day or storm, AI traffic, no AI traffic,  FTX Global or MegaSceneryEarth2.0     The key for me was finding a frame rate I could achieve most of the time then putting that + 10% as my value for the locked frames.    So for me, I can achieve 30 FPS most of the time in the NGX so I choose 30 FPS as my lock point and added 10% to that which is 33.   I turned on Triple Buffering and smoooooth.    You stutter when your frame buffer fills up and has to wait before it can unload itself and draw those frames.   By giving yourself a 10% buffer margin, the simulator isn't having to wait for the next frames to render, they are already render in that extra 3 FPS you tacked on.   This is how it was explained to me.  It made sense.  I tried it.  It worked beautifully.   I use this in conjuction with FFTT=0.01 and other performance tweaks that are specific to my hardware.  You will have to find your own sweet spot.   It's all a combination of TextureMaxLoad, SwapWaitTime and TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT setting all working together in harmony with the locked FPS and triple frame buffering.

 

 

The right in-game menu slider settings with FPS locked at 33 and triple buffering on.

 

Unfortunately, this cannot be generalized. I experimented a lot with limiting the frames and I came to the conclusion that on my machine every type of frame limiter (external or internal) and regardless of what limit I set, it introduces stutters. So on my system, unlimited frames is the way to go. And it also doesn't lead to any texture loading problems. So in the end, everyone has to check what works best on their system. No general rule will work here.

I saw little or no performance gain in my test flight from KORD to KSTL in the PMDG777 w/ASN, MSE Photoscenery, FSDT KORD, Taxi2GateKSTL, and ProATC-X. 

 

Below is a summary of FPS/VAS for P3D.cfg without Optimize_Parts enabled (I set up the FSUIPC per information in the AVSIM CTD Guide:

 

2829562 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 89 secs = 34.2 fps
  2842432 System time = 17/03/2015 18:18:49, Simulator time = 17:27:26 (23:27Z)
  2842432 *** FSUIPC log file being closed
Minimum frame rate was 14.6 fps, Maximum was 53.0fps
Minimum available memory recorded was 971Mb
Average frame rate for running time of 2619 secs = 29.0 fps
Memory managed: 1178 Allocs, 1178 Freed
********* FSUIPC Log file closed ***********

 

Below is a summary of FPS/VAS for P3D.cfg with Optimize_Parts enabled:

 

2923412 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 458 secs = 26.8 fps
  2939917 System time = 18/03/2015 08:58:31, Simulator time = 17:29:14 (23:29Z)
  2939917 *** FSUIPC log file being closed
Minimum frame rate was 9.9 fps, Maximum was 61.9 fps
Minimum available memory recorded was 971Mb
Average frame rate for running time of 2726 secs = 28.7 fps
Memory managed: 1223 Allocs, 1223 Freed
********* FSUIPC Log file closed ***********

 

With my first attempt with Optimize_Parts enabled, I had to shutdown the sim as I saw massive stuttering w/FPS going from 40 fps down to 1fps.  P3D did not CTD or freeze up.  I just shut it down as it was not usable.  The FSUIPC log reported the following errors:

 

1391748 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 363 secs = 24.4 fps
  1407691 Hook Error: can't find .42 in SIM1.dll
  1407691 Hook Error: can't find .42 in VISUALFX.dll

 

I have not encountered this problem since and consider it just one of those things that happens once in a while.

 

Best regards,

 

That's just impossible to tell you. Every PC is different. You have to find what works for you.

 

Saddly there is so much miss information and even in this topic there is loads of it. If your flying the PMDG 777/NG have a look at my sig, it might help?

Its been updated with this amazing tweak.

 

Hi David, whilst I admire and salute your efforts, your 777 doc recommendation to use AffinityMask=84 goes against the generally accepted notion that it is not required nor recommended for P3D v2.x. You also give a value that is appropriate for your hardware but not necessarily correct for others. May I respectfully suggest that if you want to include it you add a disclaimer for the unenlightened reader?

Sadly, there's really too much scope for flogging a dead horse here. We already had all the Hog-Wash about security and installs. For example making ourselves a member of admin group, and yet no one thinks why then are we still having to turn off UAC and still Run as Admin, turns the security into a Dogs-Dinner. It does not make sense, when all we need to do is add two teensy-weensy permissions to our installation folder, wherever that is.

 

But now we talk about Unlimited fps verses Limited and doesn't make any sense to compare them. A better understanding is required to work out what to do properly. It seems the design of the sim and the way DirectX works is poorly understood. Bring me that horse carcass...


When we choose the fixed fps in the sim it IS NOT a "frame limiter".

When we choose to limit frames in NI that IS a "frame limiter".


Why is the internal fps setting NOT A LIMITER? Because it introduced look-ahead frames, and does more work ahead of time, to prepare for pre-rendering, and targets that frame rate, not limit it. You spent a lot of money for a GPU designed to do it, but to ignore all that research and development $$ we may as well go back to a VGA adapter.

 

We can Limit the fps in NI, but it only makes sense to set NI limit to the P3D internal fixed count.
 
The problem with Unlimited is that when we try panning, the speed of rotation, angular velocity, whatever PC you got, is determined by the draw time per frame. Not only is the aircraft movement fixed to the draw rate, but the controls are too because you can't improve response of the sim with a change in control input since the next frame is dependent on the time taken to draw it.
 
SO it speeds up and slows down as we pan, in time with the draw rate, and that's a problem if we are turning the plane in any direction, up down left right. The plane does not respond to its flight model, it responds to being glued-in to the draw time per frame.
 
The best result is to use Unlimited to test and get your frames up, then set a fixed rate that can be adhered to at all times. Bring on all those claiming otherwise, they will have some other issue blurring the solution.

 

With a fixed fps we are also giving the sim time to load textures, and also addons responding to the frame event are not pushed to run as fast as possible which progressively eats into the sim performance as the simconnect subsystem ramps up to cope with the unnecessary stress.

 

 

If we have a 60Hz monitor then we set our fixed to a division of that, 60/30/20/15. This way the fps output keeps better time with the refresh. The vsync is fixed to the desktop in P3D since its full-screen mode is a desktop window with no caption or border.

 

Probably the reason for such variations of results reported is that If we set our sliders or settings too high somewhere, then we can't stop stutters whatever fps we want.

Steve is right..I used to use unlimited fps for many years, but after reading his analysis on previous threads, I now follow his recommendations (target fps in P3D and limit in NI) and the flight is very smooth and stable. I won't go back. What possibly have kept me away from this in the past, is the fact that unlimited frames give the illusion on TrackIR users (like me), that because panning is smoother on medium to low graphics loads, simulation is smoother. That's wrong..smooth simulation should be judged by looking at the separating line between your cockpit's windshield and the ground "running" below and not by panning the view.

 

What is still left unanswered for me, because of the placebo factor that seems difficult to overcome, is whether Vsync, Triple buffer or pre-rendered frames options in NI should be altered or left default. 

What is still left unanswered for me, because of the placebo factor that seems difficult to overcome, is whether Vsync, Triple buffer or pre-rendered frames options in NI should be altered or left default.

Thanks Deadalus.

 

With no vsync in P3D we will see a tear across the screen. Made up from the pixel differences between the last and the current frame, along the line the drawing was at in the last frame, when the current frame was displayed. So in P3D it's better with vsync on. In FSX fullscreen is the game mode screen and we could utilise the 1/4,1/3,1/2, vsync set by NI to force the GPU to limit at that division of the monitor refresh, 30fps on a 60Hz. The frame is not tied in so tightly with those partial refresh values.

 

Always set the triple buffer on with vsync and look-ahead frames. There's only 3 frames as default and we can't utilise too many as we introduce "lag" up to the time of those three frames since 20fps=0.15s. So it becomes clear that the look-ahead buffer is for when the sim get's slow, below 60fps.

Hi David, whilst I admire and salute your efforts, your 777 doc recommendation to use AffinityMask=84 goes against the generally accepted notion that it is not required nor recommended for P3D v2.x. You also give a value that is appropriate for your hardware but not necessarily correct for others. May I respectfully suggest that if you want to include it you add a disclaimer for the unenlightened reader?

Why do you think i put in big RED text Advanced, "Test on your own PC."

If people dont know how many core's or if they have HT on, then I hope they have the common since to work that out, I also did point out it as for 4 cores with HT ON. 

 

As for a "disclaimer" look on the 1st page, again in RED text "As always use at your own risk." The only red text on that page and I think it sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

Steve Waite is the man I trust when it comes to AM and read down this page, For more info, if you have HT on you need a AM,  in my opinion ofc and use at your own risk.

 

But since you think its not clear I've just added "(LM say there is no need for a AM)"

 

Thanks for the feed back but I think if people cannot take note of red text then there is no hope.

(...) What is still left unanswered for me, because of the placebo factor that seems difficult to overcome, is whether Vsync, Triple buffer or pre-rendered frames options in NI should be altered or left default. 

 

In P3Dv2 I believe vsynch is only needed when fps is set to unlimited. As long as you limit game fps below your desktop refresh rate, you can run with vsynch off /triple buffering off.

 

The NVidia Adaptive vsynch mode does that automatically. It enables vsynch when game fps exceeds desktop refresh rate in order to prevent tearing, it turns off vsynch when game fps drops below desktop refresh rate.

 

 

Why is the internal fps setting NOT A LIMITER? Because it introduced look-ahead frames, and does more work ahead of time, to prepare for pre-rendering, and targets that frame rate, not limit it.

 

Steve, does this explain why average FPS is lower with frames limited in dense or complex areas? There is an obvious and significant delta between frames locked and unlocked in these scenarios.  

You got it!

Re Affinity Masks in P3D

" the generally accepted notion that it is not required nor recommended for P3D v2.x. "

Yes let's clear this up:

The AM is a requirement for the "computer system", not "P3D".

1/ If we have Hyperthreading on, we have to use an AM to keep more than one thread starting on a core, since a core contains two LPs. If two LPs (logical processors) on a Core, are occupied by the main P3D thread, and a service thread, then that Core is contended between the needs of the two threads. Instead we want to ensure the main thread a has Core to itself, uncontended by other threads on that Core.

2/ Eventually we have many cores, (irrespective of HT on or off) we need to mask off some otherwise we'll have too many threads interrupting the main thread to pass data. Those with 4 core HT=off need not worry about an AM, or maybe mask off one core to try it out.

...the two permissions I mentioned needed adding earlier, Modify and Write, on the Users group access to the installation directory, whatever it is: