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Gregg_Seipp

So...I quit simming

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Yeah, about six months ago I shut my sim down and haven't restarted it.  This isn't a rant or anything like that.  I still check in here at the forums to see what's happening...look at the screenshots, videos and all.  There were a few reasons, some of them personal.  I thought folks might be interested so...

  • Graphics card crashes.  My GTX 970 was crashing unpredictably and after spending a lot of time planning a flight only to have it crash just after takeoff or any time during the flight requiring a restart was just...painful. 
  • Time.  Personal issues but also how draining the preparation and maintenance of my system was.  Tossing out several excellent sceneries because they required troubleshooting and I had to disable antivirus to use them...debugging performance, graphics, tweaking, tuning.
  • I was flying P3D almost exclusively and I missed the old Flight1 Mustang but was just unwilling to spend the time keeping 2 sims.  To me, there still isn't a decent replacement yet.  Hard to believe...how many years has it been?
  • I got frustrated with myself...having all of these airplanes (I have a lot) and just unable to be content.  GNS issues...can't put a GTN in that one.  Bugs, missing functionality, flight dynamics bugs in the core engine (mixture, turboprop).   
  • I was trying to practice IMC but couldn't get a solid overcast to practice in.  Apparently a bug in P3D.  That one torqued me off.  How can a sim not be able to make good IMC after all these years?
  • P3D 3.x was just too much for me to attempt. 

Simming has come a long way since FSX and before that but I think it has a lot of room to grow.

  • It'd be nice to see more weather improvements.  It'd be nice to see sunsets change based on weather conditions, water affected by weather, more air movement under turbulent conditions, haze, smog, more realistic precipitation.
  • It'd be nice to see EZDok go away.  It should be part of the sim!
  • Realistic night lighting.  I love to fly at dusk and at night! 
  • I'd like to see some realistic business jets.  I'd also like to see more of what RealAir, A2A and Milviz are doing and less of what Carenado is doing.  I'd pay a subscription fee for continual updates to a great airplane to really get continually improved than just another blasted airplane.  Airplanes are *hard* to get right!
  • A scenery fix that allows photoreal and autogen to mix.
  • More ATC and a less lonely world.  The ATC software is not there...never has been and never will be.  Time to accept that.  It's not.  ATC is more flexible, helpful and, pretty much, everywhere.  Flight Service Stations too.

Some things I wonder (and I know I'll be *told*).  Will scenery always have to bring our sims to their knees? 

  • Does having a real-world amount of trees, buildings, fences, lights, clouds have to have such a heavy cost?  Will there ever be a point where our hardware will handle it all as a matter of fact without any needed adjustment? 
  • Will Google map data (or something like it) ever be available?
  • Will real lighting ever work...built in...in the sim?
  • Can add-on crashes be prevented? 
  • I watch my son play his games and marvel with how amazing the graphics are.  Will the sims ever get a graphics makeover?  I *utterly love* Orbx scenery but it never looks as good when I'm flying around it as it does when I hit pause.  It's not their fault.
  • What will 3D tech add or take away from simming.

Anyway, that's my brain dump.  I'll probably completely skip P3D 3.x and definitely won't be simming until a replacement for the Mustang rears it's head (where I don't have to worry about anger-management issues).  I love you guys and still love the hobby.  I sincerely appreciate all the hard work folks (Orbx, RealAir, A2A, Milviz, REX, Active Sky) are putting in and how the work is going on!  Tons of hope for the future! 

 

Best wishes,

 

Gregg

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Gregg,

 

An awesome post, really. Thank you very much for sharing your sincere emotions and thoughts.

 

I share most of your concerns and, being in the simulation hobby actually since it started, I 'quit' many times but always came back.

I do not know which number is higher: the flights I made or the hair I lost trying to tweak and fix things not working as I would love them to.

 

My personal top concerns are ATC (I love VATSIM, but limited time and personal circumstances around currently make me spend most time flying off-line) and, of course, the insanely high performance toll it takes to run FS fine (in its heavily enriched version of course).

 

I wish you a lot of happiness and joy in all aspects of life.

I hope your son will share the aviation hobby with you. :smile:

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Hi Gregg, I also have the same desires and questions as you do. I fly P3D but also got X Plane 10 for Christmas. It was a jaw dropper for me. Dusk and night flying with road traffic and all night lights is fantastic !! No sim out there matches it. It is not perfect but has a lot to offer and it is being developed every day, lots of freeware scenery that is better than some payware. Anyway, hope to see you back in the air soon.

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I was trying to practice IMC but couldn't get a solid overcast to practice in. 

I hear you!

These days I only have Garmin PC trainer on my comp for my IFR training. At least this a 100% (well, almost) representation of the real thing. If some day this product could get enhanced by using correct aircraft flight dynamics and working engine instrumentation - my simming needs would be fully satisfied.

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Great words! I quit almost every week... I have two days of continuous 6hs xday simming and suddenly I want to uninstall everything and blame myself for expending so much money on this...

Is a love or hate relationship... 

 

Gregg, I do not know if you are interested on combat, but maybe you can "try" DCS.. Multiplayer and fightdogs can be really intense and funny. For me is a estable platform and a relaxing "alternative".

 

Also it's free, nothing to loose here.

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I'm not anywhere close to throwing in the towel, but if I had to add my own bullet point to the list it'd be:

 

  • Updates. Constant, constant updates. Every time I start the sim something needs an update... weather engine, flight planner, coatl, GPS, scenery, aircraft. At any given moment, if I check for updates to my sim, there's bound to be something that needs one.  A new update comes out for an airplane, I spend a half hour configuring the plane exactly how I want, then it turns out there's a minor texture issue for the damn cabin lights of all things and it will inevitably need to be reinstalled again soon. Updates for updates. Most of these updates don't even make a perceptible difference when flying. But everything needs to be "perfect", everything needs to be "right", so I keep riding the update merry-go-round.    

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Great post! I guess a lot of people around here share those thoughts! Let's wait what the future holds...

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I was close to that many times Greg, after my return in 2011, after a hiatus starting January 2009, but, instead, I have reached what I might consider the "Climax" of my simmer satisfaction, with the 3 simulators I use

 

- Condorsoaring

- DCS World ( only ww2 modules )

- Il-2 Battle of Stalingrad

 

Rise of Flight is here too, but I seldom start it, although I really like it too.

 

All of these sims give me extraordinary stability and performance like I never had, MS FLIGHT having been the only exception.  They are also all light-years ahead in terms of flight dynamics modeling, and that's why I gave them a try in the 1st place, thinking it wouldn't last a month...

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Guys, simming is my joy, but I guess at times we have to look reality in its' ugly face and come to realization it"s just a table top fantasy game that requires a lot of imagination. Maybe the answer is to save some of that add on money and go out to your local airport and go up for a couple of joy rides or a lesson or two. Or maybe some good aviation books. I am trying to concentrate more on learning my aircraft and less on eye candy but it is hard to do with new offerings every week. Almost an addiction that never satisfies. Most important that nothing take time that you owe to your family and loved ones.

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Guys, simming is my joy, but I guess at times we have to look reality in its' ugly face and come to realization it"s just a table top fantasy game that requires a lot of imagination. Maybe the answer is to save some of that add on money and go out to your local airport and go up for a couple of joy rides or a lesson or two. Or maybe some good aviation books. I am trying to concentrate more on learning my aircraft and less on eye candy but it is hard to do with new offerings every week. Almost an addiction that never satisfies. Most important that nothing take time that you owe to your family and loved ones.

 

Same here. And also I try to avoid buying thigs that i know i will only use a week or two.

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Good info -  I have SC versions of the 970 with good results.  While I don't do P3D yet I finally got a system that can run the F1 Mustang so I'm going to get back into it. 

 

The frustrations I have are due to overloaded scenery area like KORS where I can no longer land or take off without a crash about 10 miles out.  I did notice that UT2 did have millions of AI loaded last time so will reduce that and try again.

 

Like any hobby you got to spend time to be active.  The good thing, unlike model railroading is that the visuals / situation are constantly in motion and so I never get bored.  The technical challenges are good for keeping the brain cells active also.

 

Cheers

jja

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To me, it is very much a "glass half full / glass half empty" question.

 

As we all know, it is easy to overload the sim, FSX or P3D, either..

 

SO, I pare down my addons to the ones I care most about, and keep

the settings at a level where I can maintain 30 fps and do not get OOMs.

 

In practice, with Orbx regions loaded (no Vector), and a nice airplane to fly:

Scout, RV7, Bonanza, Duke, C90 GTX, Phenom 300, pick one..  I have no road traffic,

little AI traffic.  Dense autogen, simple water, simple weather themes, LOD=4.5, few

addon airports (Palm Springs, Orcas Island, CYYJ, CYCD, my local airports)..

 

And guess what... the sim is fluid, solid, in free flight as well as multiplayer,

and a joy to fly.

 

If I were you, I would go back to the barebones sim, and start over... adding

only a few favorite airplanes and some scenery, full stop.

 

And exchange that video card if it keeps failing (maybe vacuum out the case first..)

 

That way you may just rediscover what got you started in the first place   :smile:  

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Gregg

You speak for many of us.

 

Is it the love to learn how to fly a plane is lost?

 

Or is it we have lost the simplicity a flight sim used to be.

 

Todays flight sim,and addons, is software that is able to be tweaked in every way and we all fall to the thought of "maybe it could be a bit better"  therefore we maybe lose that love to learn to fly a plane.

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Good, reflective post, Gregg.    I too shut off the sim mid-December, and to my surprise, it hasn't been turned on yet. I think I was ready for a break but perhaps was fighting it.   You know those nights where you load up a flight, get bored very quickly, come out, load up a different type of flight all together - but still find yourself a little bored with it.   That's how I'd been up to the point when I decided to take a break.  

 

Absense truly does make the heart grow fonder though - I know when I get the urge again, it'll be fantastic all over again and every flight will be a joy.     Just not there yet.

 

Hopefully the same will apply to you Gregg.

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My personal top concerns are ATC (I love VATSIM, but limited time and personal circumstances around currently make me spend most time flying off-line) and, of course, the insanely high performance toll it takes to run FS fine (in its heavily enriched version of course).



I wish you a lot of happiness and joy in all aspects of life.

I hope your son will share the aviation hobby with you. :smile:

 

Thank you.  There's hope with IVAO (which I've enjoyed when flying Europe) and Pilot Edge.  I'd love to see Pilot Edge grow.

 

Gregg


 

 


Updates. Constant, constant updates.

 

True.

 

 

 


To me, it is very much a "glass half full / glass half empty" question.

 

Yeah.  When I get back to it, no doubt what you said is what I'll do.  You have to stay away from VAS limits, too many add-ons and hidden limits in the video card.  Each rebuild always had me leaving something behind.  When I do move forward it will be with clean harddrives and a new clean version of the sim.  One thing I think is that I will need to just figure out which airplanes will make me happy and staying with them...hence, the comment of subscribing to a quality airplane.  I'd like to see that model done on some airplanes (not all).

 

 

 


Is it the love to learn how to fly a plane is lost?

Or is it we have lost the simplicity a flight sim used to be.

 

It's mostly the former.  No love lost on the old sims...the sim world expands, tosses junk aside and expands again.  For myself I have been pondering, maybe, spending some money at a local airport for some left seat time. 

 

Gregg

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Good, reflective post, Gregg. I too shut off the sim mid-December, and to my surprise, it hasn't been turned on yet. I think I was ready for a break but perhaps was fighting it. You know those nights where you load up a flight, get bored very quickly, come out, load up a different type of flight all together - but still find yourself a little bored with it. That's how I'd been up to the point when I decided to take a break.

Absense truly does make the heart grow fonder though - I know when I get the urge again, it'll be fantastic all over again and every flight will be a joy. Just not there yet.

Hopefully the same will apply to you Gregg.

 

Well said.  I can't count the number of times I've thought this...why am I flying this time?  If it was the Mustang it was enough just to love to feel the plane.  Fast enough to make a long journey shorter, slow enough and with a wing view to see the sites down low, simple enough to be single-pilot.  Other airplanes...I always felt like I wanted something more.  Sometimes I was flying to see the sights which was pretty decent in Orbx regions sometimes...I always longed for photoreal and Orbx keeps growing that and making it worth a trip.  The crashes as of late were sucking a lot of wind out of my sails and, as I said, the time spent away from family with all this patching, installing, adjusting was taking a toll.  I started thinking about other things I could be doing. 

 

So, I hope it gets simpler and easier to maintain...and, maybe, we get some of those things on that list up there.  I do have a bit of 'homesickness' but not enough to go through it all right now and, especially now, with where things stand with P3D 3.1.

 

Gregg

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I too was very close to throwing in the towel recently, until I found the twitch channel, theskylounge.tv This is a community of like minded people that really enjoy all different types of flights. For me it adds the sense of community I found in other, non-sim games, also somewhere to meet and talk when not simming via Discord. All of the flying is done via FS Cloud, and there is almost always someone willing to fire up a fly together. I recommend checking them out to anyone who may be feeling a little burnt out on the usual empty skies feeling that easily goes along with flight simulation. It's not for everyone, but I actually look forward to my days off and being able to fly!

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If it was the Mustang it was enough just to love to feel the plane. Fast enough to make a long journey shorter, slow enough and with a wing view to see the sites down low, simple enough to be single-pilot.

 

Hi, Gregg,

 

I sure hate to hear this. You have had some great things to say. It's been a pleasure to read about some of the things you come up with.

 

There have been so many times when the feeling was mutual about quitting with this stuff. It doesn't take anything to wind up spending way too much time with this. But, if I wasn't simming, I'd be working! Hummmmm...gotta throw a quarter up into the air and see what it lands on. Thank goodness it's a two headed quarter, since I always call "heads".

 

It's hard to believe that after the time spent in real world flying that simming would be a great way to spend off time. But, there is something about the program. The creativity, the antagonism, the beauty of what others have produced, the forgetting to turn on the GPU fan and have the computer shut down right after takeoff, etc.

 

For a long time, quite a few of the pilots where I work would get together and we would fly multi-player....a lot. Their wives weaned them from the sim and have them doing domestic stuff! What a waste of good simming time!

 

While the aircraft in my hangar are fun to take around the patch, like you, my favorite is the A2A P-51. This airplane gets more attention then any other. So, when I pick another to go bore holes in the sky, I have to hear them complain about "Fancy Pants, the P-51"! Makes me want to quit just because of the complaints. But, some how, I just look over it all..... for now.

 

Hope to hear that you are back in it soon, Gregg. As was said above:  "Absense truly does make the heart grow fonder though......." Ditto to that!

 

Take care, Sir!

 

Jim

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Guys,

 

those of you that feel bored flying those tubeliners, for hours, and specially those of you looking forward to experience what a tremendous flight dynamics for prop aircraft or rotary wing can be, or even modern fighters ( not my cup of tea... ) should really try IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad and / or DCS World   and / or Rise of Flight...!

 

I am sure "tedium" is a word that will never come back to your minds in as far as simming goes, and even less headache due to having to spend countless hours tweaking to get good performance!

 

After more than 25 yrs of mostly civil aviation simulation, and while I admit I didn't like Air War at all, I became a real fan of these two sims.

 

Yes, i still use Condorsoaring (by far the best soaring simulator ever made available, with Silent Wings 2nd best...), and Rise of Flight is ready for re-install, by I never really played it that much ( not that it isn't good ), but the overall environment, the graphics, even weather modeling in Rise of Flight and Battle of Stalingrad ( visuals but also wind variation and turbulence like I could never find in either MSFS or X-Plane ) attracted me, and then the true to real flight dynamics, that can make even your best add-on for MSFS or X-Plane ( easier with this one ) blush, were the main reason I can never getr back to either MSFS or X-plane - maybe something coming in in the future... Visuals in DCS World are also SUPERB, specially now with DX11, and it runs super smooth ( 64 bit ), but weather modeling when it comes to wind and turbulence are faint, although being addressed in the development of version 2.0 that is ongoing... 

 

Il-2 Battle of Stalingrad, and now Battle of Moscow is an expensive tittle, some may claim, but heck, we get a bunch of great aircraft, and some get released as the beta progresses. And if being in beta in these sims is what it is already, when the modules get to their final versions the attention to detail and the quality excel.

 

In DCS, the base version is free-2-play, and you get a free Su25 and a fully 6dof, clickable, professional flight model and advanced systems model TF51d to play over Caucasus free Map, that will soon be upgraded, for free, to DCS 2.0 standards! Each module ( I only keep the ww2 fighters ) is simply AMAZING and an experience you can't really get out of ANY similar add-on for your civil sims, not because of the shooting, but because of the unique flight dynamics.

 

Try it if you can - I am sure you wont regret! Beware, it'll be difficult to find any joy in getting back to your MSFS or XP stuff... they will look soooo tame...

 

Where in MSFS / P3D / XPX can we get this, plus the actual effects on the aircraft... ?

 

 

or this sort of immersion:

 

 

Similar footage can be found for Rise of Flight and DCS World - How can anyone get bored playing these ? ...

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I hear you with respect to the Cessna Citation Mustang, Gregg. I can't understand why Flight1 have not announced a P3D version yet. I reckon it would sell by the bucketload. It is the aircraft that I have flown more than any other, in any flight simulator that I have ever owned. I would love to be able to fly it in P3D, as (like you have indicated) it has great visibility, decent performance, and it can land at very small strips (and therefore opens up so many more destination opportunities compared to other jets).

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I hear you with respect to the Cessna Citation Mustang, Gregg. I can't understand why Flight1 have not announced a P3D version yet. I reckon it would sell by the bucketload. It is the aircraft that I have flown more than any other, in any flight simulator that I have ever owned. I would love to be able to fly it in P3D, as (like you have indicated) it has great visibility, decent performance, and it can land at very small strips (and therefore opens up so many more destination opportunities compared to other jets).

 

No doubt.  It was, probably, Flight1's flagship products.  As I mentioned to someone else, I put more time into modding that airplane...tweaking and tuning...than any other airplane I own to make it just right...as much as possible within my limited abilities.  When no other airplane inspired me, that one did.  When I wanted to take a long flight to some cool airport over, sometimes, bland terrain it would get me through it.

 

 

 

Another hope for the future is at http://nexgenflightsim.com/

 

Yeah, that's what I see in my son's games...beautiful.  He was getting 30ish FPS on an Alienware laptop.  It'll be interesting to see what it looks like when it's more than still shots.

 

EDIT:  Found a video demo on youtube. 

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  • Graphics card crashes.  My GTX 970 was crashing unpredictably and after spending a lot of time planning a flight only to have it crash just after takeoff or any time during the flight requiring a restart was just...painful. 

 

Hi Gregg,

were you using any kind of OC? Did you determine the cause of those crashes?

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Hi Gregg,

were you using any kind of OC? Did you determine the cause of those crashes?

 

I was using a fairly mild overclock on the CPU but none on the graphics card.  Did some Googling and found a bit of information...tried some of it.  I dunno. 

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