11 minutes ago, tolip2 said:

Do we really? I think this is exactly the kind of attitude that has put the entire FS9/FSX/P3D branch many years behind when it comes to performance and modern technology. The computer hardware industry gave up on single-core performance like 10 years ago. Yet here we are, still tweaking and tweaking and moving 10 years back in time by disabling hyperthreading because the entire sim pretty much runs on a single core, still. Why is that? Because of backwards compatibility and because we didn't have a rewrite.

Somehow the P3D gurus seem to think that this is a good thing and noone is allowed to question them. It's like people WANT the default P3D to look bad and they say it like it's a good thing. When MSFS was announced a huge criticism from the old time simmers was "But if it looks good from the beginning, what are the 3rd party developers gonna do?". We see the same thing right now with the V5 but in the opposite way. People see things like "No real-time weather" in the release note and cheer like never before because it means they will continue buying the same 3rd party software they have always used.

We see a lot of questions like Will my payware addon to fix broken landclass, broken AI lights, broken night lighting, broken runway textures, broken AI traffic, broken ATC, broken tree textures, broken weather engine, broken ground traffic, broken autogen buildings continue to work? Maybe that's not the exact words but that exactly what it means.

I'd rather have talented 3rd party developers create something really awesome instead of selling us payware addons to fix bugs or implement basic functionality. As long as the users demand a software that works exactly as they have been used to for 20 years, we will not move forward. I think that's where a lot of the MSFS criticism comes in because they decided to actually redesign many areas from scratch. Yes, this has implications and it will break some backward compatibility. But instead of "Cool, they actually fixed <whatever>", we see "LOL, the <addon that fixes something broken> will not even work!". When someone brings this up we immediately get the "he is on the beta testing team so don't even dare to question anything he says" kind of attitude. I think this is pretty sad and I think this difference in attitude is what is going to really divide the flightsim community from now on.

But then again, according to the same people who humiliate us who thinks that some rewrites are necessary, the entire MSFS thing is just a hoax that will never be released. Case closed.

 

I want backwards compatibility because it’s what makes P3D make sense in the current market. MSFS is the new tech sim. P3Dv5 can’t compete with that (see: this video as an example!)

P3Dv5 gives us a better sandbox in which to play with the toys we already have.

 

4 minutes ago, stephenbgs said:

As a fan of all the sims, yes Xplane 11.5 p3d4.5/soon v5 and alpha MSFS, I think it’s safe to say eye candy is more then catered for in the next gen sims, weather it be out of the box or by 3rd party additions it now is truly about flight dynamics and various external factors, and since it’s a flight simulator I guess that’s what it will come down to in the end.

The night lighting video we are watching here is certainly not “eye candy”. Rather, after looking at it I need some eye beach!

x-plane 11.5 is not really an eye candy sim either - drab pallet, awful water, no shader mods that are currently compatible. Honestly, having just flown it for 6 hours (its 7am now!) i’d say irs pretty ugly. I fly p3d and x-plane for the addons, and because they’re available now.

I highly doubt enabling that enhanced atmospherics setting will make any difference. People are mostly complaining about how insanely bad the city looks night. This looks worse than FSX.

Is this a joke? I lost an appetite for dinner now! Thanks! 😅

Can't believe P3D is still stuck in 2005, after all these years. It seems to me that TrueSky is just a mascara on an old lady. 

2 hours ago, fakeflyer737 said:

Youre on the BETA for v5 ? 

No.

Sorry gotta say my opinion on this, the argument about that P3D provide with you tools to enable others kinda of nonsense. I mean for starter, LM never cares about us, ordinary users, their main consumers those military trainings contracts with millions of dollars, hence we are for them like the puppets to experiments 😀. For me LM cares about enabling other companies, not community. All what we do pay pay pay to make it look nice and at the end I found it I spent thousands. If they really care about us as sim community, they would better to embrace the community and create proper tools to create sceneries, aircrafts..etc, not to just rely on some other companies and pay huge sum to just make it look 'nice'. 

2 hours ago, Quasimodo said:

Don't expect anyone with vested interest of a conflict of interests to tell you the truth

That's exactly what I meant with this comment about that FSelite video.

Exactly what Rob said is true. There is a lot at stake for a lot of conflicting interests parties right now in the Flight Sim business. And I can guarantee you on such occasion there is no dirty deed that many of the players involved would consider to low to get ahead. 

2 hours ago, Samany69 said:

LoL, he is asking if you can define a part of your statement: Core lighting System! What is a Core lighting System??

I think he got that...and used humor to reply. Cheers!

8 hours ago, kingm56 said:

Again, why is everyone surprised?  LM has not updated the default textures in a decade...why were any of you expecting anything differently? That's a sincere question; I honestly would like to know?

Because people "in the know" here were teasingly asking us how we knew Microsoft and LM weren't secretly working together and mysteriously hinted (not wanting to break any NDAs) that P3D V5 might be a militarized version of Microsoft's new engine. Other "experts" strongly suspected that, just as Microsoft is using Bing Map data for their new sim, LM would be using Google Earth data in the same way for an equally spectacular P3D V5. kingm56 is obviously right -- we shouldn't have been surprised that V5 is such a disappointment. But I'm still stunned at how truly terrible the promo videos are. They remind me of watching the Challenger accident live on CNN. A part of your brain rationally recognizes that you've just witnessed a disaster. But another part of your brain can't really accept internally the horror of what you've witnessed. For a time, you live in partial denial.

Wow default land just looks ugly - I was hoping new mesh and terrain not something from p3dv4.5 sigh.  

 

I am glad we have DCS (I am so into it these days), Xplane 11, and upcoming MSFS.

Yes can`t wait for next year when the sim WARS really take off MODS will have there work cut out, but that`s social media now days .

I did read all of your comments here. It is good to see how different people see this topic and how their point of view is. 

I still think the night lighting is outdated and needs a refreshment.

Non of the third party devs seem to have solutions for this one. Most or maybe All of them struggle with:

• POPPING Lights in and out in a manner that while flying it is obvious immersion killing. I do not know one developper which managed that one. Why is that? 
• More Color variants overall (Streets, Paths, Cities). 
• Reflecting/Illuminating environment like streets, buildings, sky and clouds
• Reflecting on Objects like planes while flying low over illuminated scenery
• Using dynamic lights hit performance to much for the most users (even if they have decent CPU/GPU
• When using VR lights are shimmering, with and without HDR
• When using VR mismatched dynamic lights while on single pass rendering on airports and other objects
• probably other issues.......?

I am using a i7 8700k on 5.1 GhZ HT off. 3600MhZ RAM 32 GB, 11GB RTX 2080ti....and even there it hammers my system when using dynamic lights and having overcast conditions.

Of course that is a performance thing. 

But I think too........there are a lot of reasons why this is as it is. BUT: Isn´t it time to think over and leave old "things" behind. 

And: I don´t care about this "backwards" thing. I would like to see more eye candy for the price they are asking for. And I  have far more then 2 TB of addons! (without PR Scenery) Over 200 Airports (bought in 1 1/2 year) and so far and so on. So if I cannot use them it hurts. But if the main sim fits, I am willing to take the step and build it up over the next years and enjoy it.

I will buy P3D V5! That doesn´t keep me to be quiet about that horrible night lighting in P3D V5 2020 with issues and immersion killing unwanted effects.

Marcus

Edited April 11, 20206 yr by mpo910

14 minutes ago, David Mills said:

Because people "in the know" here were teasingly asking us how we knew Microsoft and LM weren't secretly working together and mysteriously hinted (not wanting to break any NDAs) that P3D V5 might be a militarized version of Microsoft's new engine. Other "experts" strongly suspected that, just as Microsoft is using Bing Map data for their new sim, LM would be using Google Earth data in the same way for an equally spectacular P3D V5. kingm56 is obviously right -- we shouldn't have been surprised that V5 is such a disappointment. But I'm still stunned at how truly terrible the promo videos are. They remind me of watching the Challenger accident live on CNN. A part of your brain rationally recognizes that you've just witnessed a disaster. But another part of your brain can't really accept internally the horror of what you've witnessed. For a time, you live in partial denial.

I would like to say: MY statement is not regarding the promo video.....I think the night lighting in P3D V5 in this year 2020 is really horrible.

The video made it just obviously by picking this out and pointing a really bad "light" on it.....

But isn´t it time to redo the lights in P3D V5 that they would be more state of the art "out of the box"?

AND if not: Why dos not even ONE Developer managed it to bring a decent solution for it as a 3. Party everyone is talking about over here?

So it is not only the "having nice lights thing". There are issues with this popping in/out. And of course I would assume that a lot of simmers now will chime and find reasions for it.

But wouldn´t it be smarter to chime what we would like to see instead of finding "reasons" why it is as bad as it is?

I don´t get it.....as a paying customer. 😉

 

35 minutes ago, David Mills said:

Because people "in the know" here were teasingly asking us how we knew Microsoft and LM weren't secretly working together and mysteriously hinted (not wanting to break any NDAs) that P3D V5 might be a militarized version of Microsoft's new engine. Other "experts" strongly suspected that, just as Microsoft is using Bing Map data for their new sim, LM would be using Google Earth data in the same way for an equally spectacular P3D V5. kingm56 is obviously right -- we shouldn't have been surprised that V5 is such a disappointment. But I'm still stunned at how truly terrible the promo videos are. They remind me of watching the Challenger accident live on CNN. A part of your brain rationally recognizes that you've just witnessed a disaster. But another part of your brain can't really accept internally the horror of what you've witnessed. For a time, you live in partial denial.

Are you referring to third-party developers, David?  Clearly, they have a vested interest in promoting and keeping P3D bland; after all, it provides them with an aperture to sell their products.  Yet, IMHO, the climate is shifting; over the past 15 years, we have been forced to accept subpar products (compared to other modern games), which created an ecosystem that compelled simmers to spend hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to create a realistic environment.  All of sudden MSFS came along and demonstrated the potential of a modern simming platform, which doesn't require copious add-ons to fabricate a living, physical environment.  As a result, I believe simmers are no longer willing to accept graphics two decades old; I believe the preponderance of simmers are ready for the next-generation of simulation, which P3D V5 clearly isn't...it offers more of same, which is to suggest you'll still need to purchase, maintain, and launch multiple applications to achieve a realistic flight experience.  To that end, V5 will only be useful to the extend that it allows simmers to use their existing add-ons; I doubt there's much of an appetite to repurchase said applications with MSFS around the corner.  

Edited April 11, 20206 yr by kingm56

5 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

I would like to say: MY statement is not regarding the promo video.....I think the night lighting in P3D V5 in this year 2020 is really horrible.

The video made it just obviously by picking this out and pointing a really bad "light" on it.....

But isn´t it time to redo the lights in P3D V5 that they would be more state of the art "out of the box"?

AND if not: Why dos not even ONE Developer managed it to bring a decent solution for it as a 3. Party everyone is talking about over here?

So it is not only the "having nice lights thing". There are issues with this popping in/out. And of course I would assume that a lot of simmers now will chime and find reasions for it.

But wouldn´t it be smarter to chime what we would like to see instead of finding "reasons" why it is as bad as it is?

I don´t get it.....as a paying customer. 😉

 

There is a third-party developer who offers night-lighting solution; however, his/company named are not allowed to be spoken here.  I'll just say his product is extremely expensive and poorly supported; you literally have to pay for support after paying $100+ for the products.  Still, to be balanced, some simmers swear it' offers an amazing night flying experience...