I get CTD even with just mouse and keyboard connected

3 minutes ago, edpatino said:

I think they surely have one, remember that is also MS not only Asobo behind this. In my opinion they need to improve their internal processes and take advantage of the experience of MS. Could you imagine this happening with a Windows 10 update?.
Cheers, Ed

Even Microsoft uses a beta testing team for their products.  Almost all major Windows version upgrades go through a beta testing phase where it's released to Windows fans who want to try the latest and greatest, and don't mind testing a beta version of Windows.

It was head scratching when Asobo abandoned the beta testing team on the release of the game.

Just now, EmaRacing said:

I get CTD even with just mouse and keyboard connected

That doesn't leave you many options then. Let's hope the hotfix will actually work for you.

Russ Barlow had a great quote about FS2020 "It is like that beautiful woman you love but she treats you badly". So you stick around taking it.

I guess I will forgive her again once this fix is working. 

I reinstalled the whole sim only to find it was still crashing, then found that unplugging the Hotas stick with the "null" profile (because it interfered with the Honeycomb yoke) fixed the problem.

I spent 6 hrs getting things set up again. 

OK I still love her.

11 minutes ago, 177B said:

Russ Barlow had a great quote about FS2020 "It is like that beautiful woman you love but she treats you badly". So you stick around taking it.

Reminds me of a friends assessment of his expensive Italian sports car, "most amazing thing I have ever driven - when it is actually going. "

Perhaps part of the wonder is that we are all willing to suffer through these sub-par qualitiy controlled releases, and for the most part, are staying optimistic.

Hopefully, MS and Asobo can appreciate our ardor.... and not keep up the SNAFU series.

C

Edited October 31, 20205 yr by cavaricooper

14 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Reminds me of a friends assessment of his expensive Italian sports car, "most amazing thing I have ever driven - when it is actually going. "

But this is a French car, Do you really want to hear what they say about today's French cars?

8 minutes ago, EmaRacing said:

But this is a French car, Do you really want to hear what they say about today's French cars?

Ford and Renault were working on a joint car project......

...where they combined the Renault Clio with the Ford Taurus. 

They gave up when male test drivers couldn't find the car.

6 hours ago, edpatino said:

Maybe the whole process have to be revised entirely.

There's also at this time a lot of people having problems loading the community liveries (third party repaints) after the recent update, because something was not properly tested before release and a intended change was not announced, etc., who knows?.

Cheers, Ed

Can you imagine if Asobo had to test every community mod before releasing a patch? Community mods, repaints, and even payware aren't their responsibility.

16 minutes ago, desbean said:

Can you imagine if Asobo had to test every community mod before releasing a patch? Community mods, repaints, and even payware aren't their responsibility.

Not asking them to test every mod, no reason to. 

But they can test one representative mod added the in the "proper" way according to their design. 

They would have already had to do this as part of developing the way it works now. 

So it's not an additional, unreasonable ask in any way. 

They should have a test case already.

 

30 minutes ago, Stoopy said:

Not asking them to test every mod, no reason to. 

But they can test one representative mod added the in the "proper" way according to their design. 

They would have already had to do this as part of developing the way it works now. 

So it's not an additional, unreasonable ask in any way. 

They should have a test case already.

 

An interesting question may be...  is the livery change that has stopped some of them working a detrimental undocumented change..  or is it a fix in the SDK to make it easier to add more liveries in the future and that there was a missing entry prior to this.

Yes.. I understand that perhaps they should have said something, but there were lots and lots of fixes/changes in this latest update in the base sim that weren't documented also...

So.. is it a bug.. or is it a fix?  🙂

Graham

Edited October 31, 20205 yr by Moria15

1 hour ago, desbean said:

Can you imagine if Asobo had to test every community mod before releasing a patch? Community mods, repaints, and even payware aren't their responsibility.

Obviously it's not the case. I'm just talking about their updates, like this one, Update 5.

Cheers, Ed

3 hours ago, Moria15 said:

An interesting question may be...  is the livery change that has stopped some of them working a detrimental undocumented change..  or is it a fix in the SDK to make it easier to add more liveries in the future and that there was a missing entry prior to this.

So.. is it a bug.. or is it a fix?  🙂

The fix - or at least the only one I've seen identified at this point and that I've just confirmed works - is that each livery now must have it's own model folder in addition to it's own texture folder, and the model folder must be enumerated with the same extension as the texture folder, and each model.x folder must contain the same content as the base model folder in the default aircraft folder.  Aside from being extraordinarily wasteful (just one of these model folders for the G36 Bonanza, for example, is 35MB compressed, and 9 of them are now needed instead of 0)  as far as I know of this approach has never been required in any version of flight simulator.  At least in my own experience and not that I am claiming to be any kind of expert but for reference I've been playing with liveries since Flight Sim 2000.

Additionally, each of these repetitive and identical model folders with slightly different names now have to be referenced in the individual livery entries in the aircraft.cfg file in the 'model=""' line, which up until now has always legally allowed a null entry to be interpreted as referring back to the using the base model folder.

So this is definitely a unique change in behavior, but there's no way to tell if the section of (assumed) legacy code that has always referred back to the base model folder was intentionally deprecated or if it's not being invoked due to a programming oversight.   However, the SDK documentation (which is a good question) does not refer to any requirement for the above explicit references being needed for the model folders that I can see, but I've only looked at the CFG section at the end of the SDK index. . That may not be saying much anyway since the SDK is known to be lacking in many areas now anyway.

And if you ever did need to specify a unique model folder, which you would use to have slightly different physical versions of the same plane (floatplane, with or without wing tanks, etc.) the ability was already provided by way of the model folders and 'model=' statement, there seems to be no reason to now force it for no reason.

But the fact that this is a very detrimental change in that it will lead to significant bloat in aircraft addons unless the same kind of fallback references in the texture.cfg file in the texture folders will work for the model.cfg file.  A quick test on my part wasn't successful but that doesn't mean I know what I am doing and someone may not find a way *

I'm going with "undocumented, detrimental feature that breaks stuff that has always worked up until now, with no understandable benefit" = BUG.

* EDIT: Seems a way exists.  Forget what I said about about the incredible file size needed.  There is a good workaround for that part at least, according to info on the flightsim.to website.

 

Edited October 31, 20205 yr by Stoopy

4 hours ago, Stoopy said:

The fix - or at least the only one I've seen identified at this point and that I've just confirmed works

Stoopy,

I think that the main point is, that this works for YOU, and MAY work for others, whilst NOT working for some.  

I am not professing anything other than the whole system is so unpredictable. My method of removing the Community folder contents, and then replacing it after the upgrade, followed by the deletion of the modded aircraft and liveries in the Community folder, which are then replaced by extracting the original files back into the Community folder, actually works for ME.  It does not, and has not worked for others.

How do the Modders and/or MS and Asobo come to grips with what actually works and what does not.  I believe everybody, and I mean everybody, is scratching their heads.  I do not think I am alone, when I say that I dread the updates and their potential to create havoc, whilst avidly wanting the updates.  The whole delivery system (MS AND Steam) is so inconsistent to the point that I do not know if anybody actually knows where to start.

The really sad thing, is that this sort of comment comes from a very satisfied user, who has have very little problems with either initial downloads, (twice) installs, and updates.

The only concrete observation here, is that there is a long way to go, but it would be nice if updates would not interfere with a community folder which was initially set up to avoid these problems.

I have not got the technical ability to call any shots here, and I have to admit that it was only luck that put me on to MY cure.  I just hope that all is eventually solved, but I think it will go very much deeper that this Hotfix, which again will help some and not others.

Regards

Tony

5 hours ago, Stoopy said:

The fix - or at least the only one I've seen identified at this point and that I've just confirmed works - is that each livery now must have it's own model folder in addition to it's own texture folder, and the model folder must be enumerated with the same extension as the texture folder, and each model.x folder must contain the same content as the base model folder in the default aircraft folder.  Aside from being extraordinarily wasteful (just one of these model folders for the G36 Bonanza, for example, is 35MB compressed, and 9 of them are now needed instead of 0)  as far as I know of this approach has never been required in any version of flight simulator.  At least in my own experience and not that I am claiming to be any kind of expert but for reference I've been playing with liveries since Flight Sim 2000.

Additionally, each of these repetitive and identical model folders with slightly different names now have to be referenced in the individual livery entries in the aircraft.cfg file in the 'model=""' line, which up until now has always legally allowed a null entry to be interpreted as referring back to the using the base model folder.

* EDIT: Seems a way exists.  Forget what I said about about the incredible file size needed.  There is a good workaround for that part at least, according to info on the flightsim.to website.

 

But it is even worse than you described (for which thanks). If you are using a custom interior (necessary if you use an G1000 modification within the mod) you cannot - so far - mix and match your custom interior with the default exterior and still have your added liveries. This crashes the sim. You can only call the default exterior and the default interior. If you try to customise the interior and also call the default exterior the mod crashes. I know this because since the last update a mod I was completing is now not loadable.

But this has implications far beyond current mods. Unless a solution is found, this not only creates wasteful file sizes but also prevents any flexibility if you design a mod that has both added liveries and custom interiors. It is a totally unnecessary and retrograde step that is as pointless as it is restrictive.

The solution posted at flightsim.to website will work only if you are adding straight liveries. It will not work if you are also modding interior or systems files because the requirement for model folders that match the texture folders means, as far as I can discover, that the sim only accepts model cfg content that calls the default interior and exterior but not the default exterior and a custom interior.

The only way I can see out of this is to possibly create a secondary mod which runs in parallel and can install a custom interior or glass gauge (like the G1000 mod) outside of the primary mod.

I believe this is why - so far - many current mods which alter systems or gauges will not load any bespoke liveries.

Before the update, the sim instantly recognised any added livery textures with no need whatsoever to create model folders to match the texture folders. It is an inexplicable step which could I think easily be remedied but has not been fixed.