12 hours ago, Adrian123 said:

Then I shall revisit MSFS when they are available.

Or you can try it right now with mods! 🙂 Of course choice is yours !

meh ... you cannot get this sort of immersive experience out of MSFS (though, fair enough,  if your thing is flying airline ops you probably do not care) --

 

12 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

I personally don’t understand how people want to walk back to fsx after MSFS. Sure there is not a lot of airplanes and 3rd party add ons at the moment . But hey, do you remember first couple months with FSX before acceleration pack? How many complex add on you have? Lol

Happiest day in my life was when I dropped FSX and moved to P3D. I think it will be the same when I move to MSFS 2020 which should happen in a week when my new PC arrives. Tried X Plane several times, just didn't do it for me. 

13 hours ago, PIC007 said:

I was so excited a year ago when I heard about FS 2020, I started planning for it back then.

Did a lot of research, waited for the specs, checked numerous sources, and once it was launched decided on a top of the line PC just for the sim.... I was pumped up and ready!

The sim runs word not allowed near perfect, none of the major issues others seem to have. I waited 2 months after the sim was released to be sure of the specs before buying the machine...I-7....RTX 2080...32 gigs RAM......and in the months since, it sits there on it's own desk, complete with CH yoke, throttle, pedals....and about 5 hours total time, a few of which were spent just 'tweaking' it.

Try as I might, I just can't get excited about 2020, there are too many things I loved about FSX that are missing from 2020. I keep hoping we would see them return on these updates, but so far, they are not even on the 'to do' list. I bought the basic sim because the ultimate had none of the options I wanted, so I planned on buying whatever I wanted when the addons are released. So far that ain't happened. I had over 300 gigs of addon's in FSX, planes, scenery, airports, I have no issue spending money, but so far there has been nothing I am interested in...NADA.

I keep hoping and waiting but even the few dev's I worked with in FSX say it's going to be a long time before complex planes are ready......I am getting real close to firing up FSX again and parking 2020 for the foreseeable future.

Anyone else a bit disappointed in the current state of affairs or am I alone on this?

Agree 100% ... I keep trying it and it just leaves me cold. Straight back to P3D. This is also after a couple hundred hours on the Alpha/Beta.

2 hours ago, regis9 said:

 

I do wonder if COVID has had an impact on my shift in flying as well.  When flying airliners I always pick a real world flight to duplicate.  With the airline industry in shambles there are far fewer flights to choose from and I wonder if this has also contributed to my shift in flying priorities.

 

I don't know about other simmers, but I tend to fly routes that I've flown on IRL, but not exclusively. I think MSFS has made me fly to more locations that I've never been to IRL, and in the future the sim will only get more realistic.

Nothing in this world could get me to go back to a 32bit sim , OOM errors and all.  It had its time. Was well used.  But going back would be like finding a VCR and popping in a VHS movie relative to 4k stream or blueray. 

I have about 150h now in MSFS.  In my mind it's the future if it continues to evolve in the right direction.  But right now, despite how good it is at certain things and it truly is, it has the basic problem inherent in desktop flying:  unless you have a lot of things to do while flying to keep your head in the game as it were, once up at altitude it can become just a few notches better than watching paint dry.  When I fly in unfamiliar areas of the planet I will stay focused after reaching top of climb, typically in the TBM930, to learn something about the geography & geology below.  It's enriching, feels like flying in the real world by comparison to P3D's environment.  But flying in places that I'm very familiar with, unless there is significant weather involved, viewing scenery quite doesn't offer the staying power because I'm already familiar with it.  Right now, in the last two weeks only, I'm flying P3D more than MSFS.  I've been a staunch and vocal supporter of MSFS and remain so, but w/o having to manage an airliner like my fav PMDG 777 at the gate w/ GSX 2 and have FSCaptain to add 'grading' of my performance as a pilot, it's less compelling to stay engaged once in the air.  So right now, I'm exploring the rest of our big planet in the TBM930 about 35% of my sim time, and doing FSCaptain-brokered flights in P3D in the 777 about 65% of the time.   This change for me, which really since release was about 90% MSFS and 10% P3D, was when it dawned on me I could get all of the best capabilities offered by P3D (as a cockpit simulator primarily) by flying mainly from dusk to dawn, when the scenery below is irrelvant except at the departure and arrival airports.  Night lighting in P3D is good enough, and lovely in nicely done addon terminals.   This also allowed me to dial way back on autogen, LOD distance etc so now I can fly the PMDG 777 into any big terminal easily and not have my CPU choke.

Indications are that PMDG is coming sometime in 2022, and FSDT has committed to making Ground Services X for MSFS.  I imagine that will be amazing when that is released.   When MSFS can be a similar cockpit simulator it will have the whole package.  The staying power will be hugely enhanced by this, and with it the marketplace for 3rd party content will maximize as well.  If MS/A does not progress as it appears they will, then it will likely flounder in terms of staying power.  It's so good in the scenery/atmosphere domain that it will still gain new marketshare I feel, just not of the staying power of something like P3D.

 

10 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

In some ways if the end result is the complex aircraft/procedures/airline people spit off and stay with P3D which becomes the go-to place for people wanting to simulate airline ops and all the rest (VFR GA, Bush Planes, Retro and classic stuff etc etc) becomes the focus of MSFS that may actually be a good outcome.  

There is no rule that says one sim has to be all things to all people.

 

And this is the problem for me. Why should I invest in add ons for MSFS if the goal for MSFS is to have a GA sim? This is why they need to accelerate getting PMDG, who was basically billed as a flagship developer, into the sim as fast as possible. It makes the sim more credible for those who want complex airliners. Now, it doesn't have to be PMDG specifically - any higher end developer will do, but something needs to pop sooner than what has been advertised recently. If AS/MS promise that we will have complex airlines, but they create conditions that make it difficult to implement these aircraft, any money spent on add ons today is flushing your money down the toilet if complex airliners are your bag. If GA was the original intention, let me know. They already have my money. It just helps me know which sim will take up my drive space.

I do think the FBW A320 is a pretty good aircraft right now, and I have had many great flights in it. I'm still seeing some weirdness with approaches and STARs, but I'm sure those things will be worked out. I haven't gone back to P3D, because the visuals are too nice in MSFS. Still, the lack of real AI, the appalling pushback procedure, and the need to turn down the visual icing effects on every flight tick away at MSFS' immersion factor.

Also, the argument that MSFS is more mature than FSX was 5 months after release is pretty irrelevant. The question is what do you prefer to fly now? When people fire up their rig, they can click on MSFS or FSX/P3D. The have a choice between the sims in their current state, and not a choice between a vanilla modern sim and a 14 year old vanilla sim. 

Why is PMDG always mentioned? It’s like some people can’t have a sim Unless is has one of their planes. Am I missing something? I managed to use xplane 11 fine without ever needing a PMDG bird...... 

18 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Why is PMDG always mentioned? It’s like some people can’t have a sim Unless is has one of their planes. Am I missing something? I managed to use xplane 11 fine without ever needing a PMDG bird...... 

Exactly. Been in flightsim since FS5 and never owned a PMDG plane. Maybe MS realise that catering to the average simmer is best rather than the $150 per plane simmer who is a niche within a niche.

42 minutes ago, duckbilled said:

And this is the problem for me. Why should I invest in add ons for MSFS if the goal for MSFS is to have a GA sim? This is why they need to accelerate getting PMDG, who was basically billed as a flagship developer, into the sim as fast as possible. It makes the sim more credible for those who want complex airliners. Now, it doesn't have to be PMDG specifically - any higher end developer will do, but something needs to pop sooner than what has been advertised recently. If AS/MS promise that we will have complex airlines, but they create conditions that make it difficult to implement these aircraft, any money spent on add ons today is flushing your money down the toilet if complex airliners are your bag. If GA was the original intention, let me know. They already have my money. It just helps me know which sim will take up my drive space.

I do think the FBW A320 is a pretty good aircraft right now, and I have had many great flights in it. I'm still seeing some weirdness with approaches and STARs, but I'm sure those things will be worked out. I haven't gone back to P3D, because the visuals are too nice in MSFS. Still, the lack of real AI, the appalling pushback procedure, and the need to turn down the visual icing effects on every flight tick away at MSFS' immersion factor.

Also, the argument that MSFS is more mature than FSX was 5 months after release is pretty irrelevant. The question is what do you prefer to fly now? When people fire up their rig, they can click on MSFS or FSX/P3D. The have a choice between the sims in their current state, and not a choice between a vanilla modern sim and a 14 year old vanilla sim. 

Who said the goal was a GA sim? .. Where did they state that goal? Can you point it out for me ?

PMDG is not ASOBO and ASOBO will do what suits them on their own development timeline..

What i think is happening and this is just my opinion. It appears that the platform is now getting to the point where there are less showstoppers  and more nitpicking items to fix. At this point you will have to wait till the developers get to it and fix your niggle. If in your opinion its a showstopper then choose the sim that doesn't annoy you as much.

People just need to make their choices and be happy with it.

Edited January 17, 20215 yr by Maxis

16 minutes ago, sanh said:

Exactly. Been in flightsim since FS5 and never owned a PMDG plane. Maybe MS realise that catering to the average simmer is best rather than the $150 per plane simmer who is a niche within a niche.

 

I think MS have the sense to realise these forums are a niche market and not pander just to them.

Otherwise it is like Ford or GM designing their new product line solely around what their marketing people read on a Ferrari Forum .

3 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Happiest day in my life was when I dropped FSX and moved to P3D. I think it will be the same when I move to MSFS 2020 which should happen in a week when my new PC arrives.

Just do not delete P3D off your system...

I predict that you will be flying both MSFS and P3D for quite a while... as many of us do 😉

1 hour ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Why is PMDG always mentioned? It’s like some people can’t have a sim Unless is has one of their planes. Am I missing something? I managed to use xplane 11 fine without ever needing a PMDG bird...... 

Because people lack the sense to realise that PMDG's reputation was built by the guy who left it to form FSL which is why their stuff is better by far than PMDGs stuff, but in any case A2A is better than both of them put together, and so is Majestic come to think of it. 

Do people expect a paradigm shift with each new generation sim? It seems so - and who could blame them. If your expectations were based on the hype MS fed out before the release of 2020, you are bound to be disappointed right now. Is this unjust? Of course. But this is how big business typically works. I'm as bummed as many of you, but after my initial disappointment, I calmed down and realized that this new title IS a paradigm shift - or we might more correctly say - this is the PROMISE of a paradigm shift. It's far from being there yet, but the foundation IS there. We just have to be patient. This is a really massive undertaking. What sim prior to this has taken on the task of encompassing the entire planet in some believable level of detail? And consider that there is a broad range of simmers out there, all wanting their individual interests served. I'm glad I'm not the one that has to take that on. I'm really a hard-core VFR flyer. I spent my 30 years as a PP building and flying simple VFR aircraft. I would love it if MSFS had an onboard working chart system that could be used to plot out a simple VFR cross-country, using pilotage (they did provide a usable VOR system). That may never happen. Still, there is so much in 2020 to keep me interested and engaged until perfection arrives (if ever), that it allows me to be calm, be patient, and entertain myself with what's here. A lot of you seem to have the attitude: "either it's perfect, or I'm outa' here!"  Perhaps you should be looking at yourselves instead of this imperfect digital chaos.