1 minute ago, sanh said:

Seb has been doing a lot of the FM work I think and he's the CEO. Good they have a dedicated developer now to manage/do the work. Big plus for MSFS...

I think a lot of word not allowed are really upset at MSFS working really hard to improved the flight model because there is a point where all the other flight sim will become irrelevant and all the hard earn money they spend on it will be worthless. We are already seen IniBuild jumpship. I don't think this is the the last one who will do so.

4 minutes ago, sanh said:

Seb has been doing a lot of the FM work I think and he's the CEO. Good they have a dedicated developer now to manage/do the work. Big plus for MSFS...

Oh I noticed Seb's been doing his physics homework, and he's definitely doing a good job on a lot of flight model related stuff (just thinking of the CFD he showed for helicopters). Still I'm sure he can't beat someone who's been working for more than 20 years on the in-and-outs of flight models. 

3 hours ago, jbdbow1970 said:

So what you think MSFS is going to spend millions of dollars on a FM

They already have. 7 years in development, over 100 devs. Over a million? Easily.  

20 minutes ago, pstrub said:

Oh I noticed Seb's been doing his physics homework, and he's definitely doing a good job on a lot of flight model related stuff

Seb’s great, obviously very talented. This hire makes me wonder if he’ll be stepping back from the dev work. Hopefully not though. 

22 minutes ago, NZ255 said:

Seb’s great, obviously very talented. This hire makes me wonder if he’ll be stepping back from the dev work. Hopefully not though. 

I suspect it'll free him up to do the ground handling rewrite 

1 hour ago, NZ255 said:

Seb’s great, obviously very talented. This hire makes me wonder if he’ll be stepping back from the dev work. Hopefully not though. 

Probably will be perfect to have another expert in the fm to bounce things back and forth, and provide techniques and criticisms as warranted. Nothing but a plus in my eyes 

12 hours ago, MarcG said:

If this was my football team then I'd declare this "a brilliant signing", bags of experience, obviously knows his stuff very well and he'll certainly help push MSFS physics into the future.

Asobo need more signings like this in certain aspects (VR 👀) to help move the entire stimulation forwards, and by that I don't just mean aviation.

That poor ball! Everybody leaps at a chance to kick it! Hard as they can. They carry the footballers off the field in triumph! And the poor ball just rolls away alone and forgotten. Oh the shame and violence of it all !

9 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

I think a lot of word not allowed are really upset at MSFS working really hard to improved the flight model because there is a point where all the other flight sim will become irrelevant and all the hard earn money they spend on it will be worthless. We are already seen IniBuild jumpship. I don't think this is the the last one who will do so.

Yes, I agree with you, iniBuilds won't be the only 3rd party developer that jump ships from XP.  XP 12 was not a good release, with the overall community panning it as XP 11.5, etc.  It wasn't a revolutionary release that the community was led to believe. I see parallels between XP and Blackberry.  After the IPhone came out, it was just so far more advanced than the Blackberry.  Eventually, Blackberry tried to counter with a new Blackberry model (ie. LR countering with XP 12).  But it was too little and too late for Blackberry, their new model was still light years behind IPhone.  The new model didn't stop the overall fate of Blackberry and Blackberry's fate in the mobile market was sealed (it also didn't help Blackberry when Android phones started coming out).

I suspect more 3rd party add-on developers will follow iniBuilds and jump ship too, especially with the type of release that XP 12 was.

Edited September 18, 20223 yr by abrams_tank

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

I suspect more 3rd party add-on developers will follow iniBuilds and jump ship too, especially with the type of release that XP 12 was.

I actually think XP12 will get more support from developers with time.

One area very important for me and where I do hope / believe this will take place is in Weather Modelling, that LR significantly upgraded into a much more consistent / realistic / fully featured base for devlopment, and as always is providing the necessary tools to 3pds to make shine. I look forward to see ASX for XP12 ! and I am sure Hifi will do their best to enhance the already powerful weather modelling in XP12.

XP12 is not comparable to MFS but rather with XP11, and in that area and while released in Early Open Beta, it still has a lot of new features, namely in the areas that I care about in the very first place - Flight Dynamics and Weather Modelling.

I actually am now 100% in XP12. Do I miss the scenery, Fenix A320 and even the default ATC and RW injected traffic ? I surely do, but at the same time I really want to contribute to the development of XP12 and am sure it'll give me in return an experience that I will benefit from.

Austin is himself a "Petrovich" for XP. But instead of just now having arrived, he's always been there, even in times Petrovich was still @ FS 98 ( XP already existed by that time ... ). ASOBO will surely profit from his new element, and all of us users too because I am sure it'll have positive impact in the simulation of flight dynamics and maybe even systems, but XP has been modelling features that Rise of Flight and IL-2 have since ages....

Edited September 18, 20223 yr by jcomm

2 hours ago, jcomm said:

I actually think XP12 will get more support from developers with time.

It's not comparable to MFS but rather with XP11, and in that area and while released in Early Open Beta, it still has a lot of new features, namely in the areas that I care about in the very first place - Flight Dynamics and Weather Modelling.

I actually am now 100% in XP12. Do I miss the scenery, Fenix A320 and even the default ATC and RW injected traffic ? I surely do, but at the same time I really want to contribute to the development of XP12 and am sure it'll give me in return an experience that I will benefit from.

Austin is himself a "Petrovich" for XP. But instead of just now having arrived, he's always been there, even in times Petrovich was still @ FS 98 ( XP already existed by that time ... ). ASOBO will surely profit from his new element, and all of us users too because I am sure it'll have positive impact in the simulation of flight dynamics and maybe even systems, but XP has been modelling features that Rise of Flight and IL-2 have since ages....

The reception of XP 12 from the community, was very lukewarm, at best.  Flightdeck2sim, who is a pretty staunch XP supporter, said:

Quote

Is XP12 ready right now? Having played around with it today, I’d say no, it isn’t, it’s in early access and if you’ve got XP11 with all your plugins and addons I’d wait until your favourite plugins and addons are completely compatible before considering switching.

That's not a ringing endorsement from flightDeck2Sim, telling his followers they are better off staying on XP 11 for the time being.  Yes, MSFS also wasn't ready on release in August of 2020, but the technology was so ground breaking, MSFS didn't need to be ready back in August of 2020.  The day MSFS released in August of 2020, they stole a huge percentage of the home consumer flight sim market - this is a key point, because MSFS was "not ready" in August of 2020 but still stole a huge percentage of the home consumer flight sim market share anyways.  Unlike MSFS, XP 12 did not have the luxury of being "not ready," as per FlightDeck2Sim's comment.  Then you have CptCanada, another huge streamer on Youtube, commenting on his disappointment on XP 12 and that he will stay with MSFS. On the Twitch side, one of the biggest streamers would be Chewwy and Chewwy was also disappointed in XP 12 and he said he will stick with MSFS.  Over and over again, the biggest flight sim influencers and flight sim streamers on Twitch and YouTube have panned XP 12.

Also, XP 12 was released on Steam a few days ago and the number of reviews for it stands at about 65: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2014780/XPlane_12/.  Compare this to MSFS which has some 38,521 reviews on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1250410/Microsoft_Flight_Simulator_Game_of_the_Year_Edition/.  I know XP 12 hasn't been released on Steam for very long, but most reviews do come in the first few days for a new game on Steam, when people are most actively buying/downloading it.  Based on the number of reviews of XP 12 on Steam at 65, I don't think XP 12 sold very well and it explains why LR was forcing XP 12 advertisements on XP 11 users after they spawned into XP 11.

I know that presenting the above information is a bit harsh, so I hope you don't mind that @jcomm, and I respect your decision to switch to XP 12 from MSFS.  But the information above is very important to 3rd party developers because if the sales of XP 12 are bad, they are not going to stick around (look at how the 3rd party devs making add-ons for for the home consumer market left P3D for the same reason).  3rd party developers have bills to pay, they got to pay rent, they got to feed their family.  And if the add-on sales in XP 12 is going to be poor (and if you look at the information I posted above, it's likely going to trend that way), I think there is a good chance that other 3rd party add-on developers from XP 12 will jump ship as @fogboundturtle alluded too.

Anyways, I think the hiring of Petrovich is another example of how MSFS will continue to pull away from XP.  Business is war, and MSFS is spending the big bucks to get the best talent on MSFS like Petrovich, Working Title, iniBuilds, etc.

Edited September 18, 20223 yr by abrams_tank

@abrams_tank, I almost fully agree with your view of XP12 vs MFS... Honestly and in some way it's also my view / oppinion.

But I still want to save time to contribute now to the XP12 cause the best I can.

This doesn't mean I do not see MFS as:

- The BEST overall civil flight simulation experience I ever had in my simmer life;

- The BEST investment, since I am able to get most of what I never even tried to buy as addons for previous versions or for X-Plane and now get for free !!!

- The most dynamic team ( also incomparably bigger than others ) - ASOBO - and an MS product manager willing to continue to bring MFS to the TOP in all aspects that are important for simmers.

- I miss the time to play with the Fenix A320, the PMDG 737-700 and the FBW A32N, as well as a couple GA props.

Meanwhile I am still getting a very good experience from XP12, due to it's new Weather Model and the Toliss A319 and even the FF A320 U ( which I was very critic about in the past but are doing it's best to be a good A320 for XP12... ).

 

Edited September 18, 20223 yr by jcomm

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

 Business is war, and MSFS is spending the big bucks to get the best talent on MSFS like Petrovich, Working Title, iniBuilds, etc.

And Wotking Titlr are now hiring, as they expand into developement in other areas of the sim.

I think that the best news here for MSFS is not so much who has been hired or for what, but the fact that Microsoft continues to invest and push the platform, and not necessarily in the areas making it more approachable or tempting for the casual gamer, Xbox, etc. but in the areas which make up the basis of an accurate sim. This is in stark contrast to the people arguing that they want to "gamify" it, that it is built around the Xbox and the PC is an afterthought, etc. Not just the hiring of Petrovich, but the onboarding of Inibuilds, WT hiring, and the plenty of open positions related to MSFS in ASOBO. 

 

It will take time to get there, yes, but clearly they have the means and the willingness, so it´s just a matter of "when". 

 

On the other hand, not sure why some people see the growth of MSFS as a threat to XP. Personally, I was an XP11 user and just used P3D for a brief time, but right now I am convinced that MSFS is "my" future. Nevertheless, XP was always the underdog in this business, even before MSFS, their market share was below that of P3D, and before XP11 even less. It was always used by a reduced amount of people (compared to FS or P3D) who liked some features only available in XP, or did not like some other characteristics of the other sims. And these people will continue with Xplane, as well as the Mac users, Linux users, people who have invested big bucks in XP addons... anyway, apparently XP Mobile was already a big income source for LR so they can take a hit in the desktop market.

 

Maybe Austin has to sell the Ferrari or has to fly the Lancair few less hours per year? But I see no big issue for XP at the end. 

 

 

15 hours ago, pstrub said:

Oh I noticed Seb's been doing his physics homework, and he's definitely doing a good job on a lot of flight model related stuff (just thinking of the CFD he showed for helicopters). Still I'm sure he can't beat someone who's been working for more than 20 years on the in-and-outs of flight models. 

Frist of all SEB is a very good programmer. The fact that he is now making a FM is actually secondary. I doubt he knew much about FM before they sealed the deal with MS..That is why it does not matter what background the guy from IL2 has, because he can obviously adapt to the situation. 
The same with Matt from WT. An awesome coder that can use his skill set to improve any product. 

3 hours ago, jcomm said:

I actually am now 100% in XP12.

Do let us know when you UNINSTALL it Jose 😉