FSS Embrear 175

[188AHC 2,138]

Please read and pay close attention as this will be said only once.

Stop the personal arguments and discuss the release in a manor accepted by our terms of service. Any more attacks will be dealt with in some time off from the site.

Be kind to each other and discuss this without personal criticisims.

 

[Amon1973 1,421]

19 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

I've been reading this thread to see what is deal?  I must confess over 60% add ons  I buy (I should have known better) have some or a lot of stuff "not as advertised". Unless developer step up and fix I usually stop buying product from them. 

Now lets ask rhetorical question - wasn't MSFS initial release big misadvertising? LOL A was one of beta tester and I was shocked by Asobo decision to push MSFS for release! Here we are some years later having sim that shaping up pretty nice!

So here simple thing don't like it don't buy it. Why waste you time discussing it? Alternatively wait for release, check some reviews, opinion then decide whether you want to buy or not! What in world 25 pages is about?. Even Captain Sim didn't have so much attention! LOL

I agree about MSFS, I was one of the Alpha testers who were arguing that MSFS wasn't ready for general release when it did, although I still bought the Premier Deluxe Version as I wanted to help MSFS become a commercial success, it was still a gamble on my part to risk a decent amount of money on something that might flop. Incidentally I purchased both FSW and P3D v5 and have barely used them, and my gamble on them failed, others might not see it that way. I've since upgraded from XP11 to XP12 and with that time will tell, but I'm sure it will be fine.

Likewise I will be buying the E175 tomorrow as I want to support a new Dev company, give it a chance to grow and become a serious player in the field, if they succeed we all win. 

If they fail well, I'll lose around £36, a small risk, I'm more than willing to take.  

[Fiorentoni 4,253]

Maybe I'm cherrypicking here but their roadmap https://www.flightsim-studio.com/ejets-roadmap/ is still confusing, to say it a positive way. Now they say that

"1) Please note that the E170/175 and E190/195 will be independent packages.
2) Once purchased Early Acces (sic) all future updates including the final release are free of charge"

Now for anyone who didn't follow this discussion I'd say it's not clear that the E190/195 are being SOLD seperately and are not included into this purchase, actually the second phrase makes it sound that it would be an independent package in a "future update" that is "free of charge". Now if they are really not doing this on purpose, they should definitely get someone who knows how to correctly phrase their marketing messages...

 

[F737MAX 5,627]

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

they do not say anything about their financial condition and/or, whether they need the funds from this early access for continued development. 

Unless a business is publicly traded, or is asked for its financial position during a contract tender process, there is no requirement to disclose this type of information. And rightly so, as It is commercially sensitive.
Though, it's not exactly rocket science to deduce that this is the rationale for such an early release.
 

2 hours ago, Maxis said:

That is what MOST REASONABLE people are looking for ... a clear ACCURATE and transparent statement as to what they are presently is on offer, what the roadmap is going to look like and how they are going to sell the product.

The bar has been set so low that this is only achieving the absolute bare minimum expected of them.
There appears to be some weird push for people to accept that this project is now acceptable due to the simple inclusion of a warning on the product page. As described earlier, it is a legal requirement for them to do so.

Instead, this product feels like a BlackBox Simulations 'Prologue' add-on. A lot of hope and belief is being projected onto a company with very little to substantiate whether it is deserved.

I am glad that the website displays this information rather than trying to find it in a 3-hour-long livestream, giving potential buyers the chance to be aware of what they will be purchasing.
Yet, there's still an awfully long way to go and a lot to do. Indeed, the comment “We are using many custom systems” feels like a stretch at this point.

Personally, I don't like the 'early release' model. There have been too many instances where developers have 'finished' a product well before it delivered on its pre-release promises, plus, it sets a standard for other developers to follow.
We'll see in 12 months' time whether those who decide to buy this upon release are justified in taking the risk. It would be such a welcome change if that were the case.
 

Caveat emptor.

[Twenty6 693]

47 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Now for anyone who didn't follow this discussion I'd say it's not clear that the E190/195 are being SOLD seperately and are not included into this purchase, actually the second phrase makes it sound that it would be an independent package in a "future update" that is "free of charge". Now if they are really not doing this on purpose, they should definitely get someone who knows how to correctly phrase their marketing messages...

From the FSS website 9January, 2023:

 

PLANNED RELEASES

We are developing the E-Jets Series which once finished will include the E170, E175, E190 and E195.

• – Initially, only the E175 will be released. Once we finish the E170, all customers of the E175 will receive the E170 for free. This product will be the E170/E175 bundle.
• – Next, the E195 will be released as a separate product. Once we also finish the E190, all customers of the E195 will receive the E190 for free. This product will be the E190/E195 bundle.

[longhaul747 71]

4 minutes ago, Twenty6 said:

From the FSS website 9January, 2023:

 

PLANNED RELEASES

We are developing the E-Jets Series which once finished will include the E170, E175, E190 and E195.

• – Initially, only the E175 will be released. Once we finish the E170, all customers of the E175 will receive the E170 for free. This product will be the E170/E175 bundle.
• – Next, the E195 will be released as a separate product. Once we also finish the E190, all customers of the E195 will receive the E190 for free. This product will be the E190/E195 bundle.

As a fan of multi variants by the same developer just so things are somewhat consistent is music to my ears.  It really does not bother me that you have to pay for them in package pricing as long as pricing is within market rates.  

I plan to pick up the E-175 shortly after initial real world reviews come out.  If it ends up being a disaster I will wait until further development but at this point I don't think we know what we have until its really released.  I think it looks pretty fantastic at least the visual model.

I really wish developers like Fenix would announce more variants.  I don't care if its 2 years away but I would like to see a complete Airbus A320 series from them.  Just an A320 gets kind of boring after a while and these days its really the A321 that is out there the most.       

 

[carlanthony24 576]

3 minutes ago, longhaul747 said:

I really wish developers like Fenix would announce more variants.  I don't care if its 2 years away but I would like to see a complete Airbus A320 series from them.  Just an A320 gets kind of boring after a while and these days its really the A321 that is out there the most.       

 

If they announced more variants people will constantly badger for updates and be disappointed when told x,y and z. A line has to be drawn somewhere. 

[Fiorentoni 4,253]

39 minutes ago, Twenty6 said:

From the FSS website 9January, 2023:

 

PLANNED RELEASES

We are developing the E-Jets Series which once finished will include the E170, E175, E190 and E195.

• – Initially, only the E175 will be released. Once we finish the E170, all customers of the E175 will receive the E170 for free. This product will be the E170/E175 bundle.
• – Next, the E195 will be released as a separate product. Once we also finish the E190, all customers of the E195 will receive the E190 for free. This product will be the E190/E195 bundle.

Ah thanks I found it. Yeah, that's clearly stated on that page. I was looking at the roadmap page only.

[Fiorentoni 4,253]

34 minutes ago, longhaul747 said:

As a fan of multi variants by the same developer just so things are somewhat consistent is music to my ears.  It really does not bother me that you have to pay for them in package pricing as long as pricing is within market rates.  

I plan to pick up the E-175 shortly after initial real world reviews come out.  If it ends up being a disaster I will wait until further development but at this point I don't think we know what we have until its really released.  I think it looks pretty fantastic at least the visual model.

I really wish developers like Fenix would announce more variants.  I don't care if its 2 years away but I would like to see a complete Airbus A320 series from them.  Just an A320 gets kind of boring after a while and these days its really the A321 that is out there the most.       

 

Well they said if the A320 sells well (which it apparently did) they'll most probably do the 319 and 321, so it's not like they ignored it. But what do you mean "announce"? I mean they are working on the IAE at the moment and then the sharklets thereafter, both for free, so they haven't even started working on those other aircraft and will probably not for another 1-2 years. What do you gain by having them announce an aircraft they haven't even started working on?

Edited January 9, 2023 by Fiorentoni
grammar

[edu2703 267]

2 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

So here simple thing don't like it don't buy it. Why waste you time discussing it? Alternatively wait for release, check some reviews, opinion then decide whether you want to buy or not! What in world 25 pages is about?. Even Captain Sim didn't have so much attention! LOL

At least Captain Sim was very clear about the (lack of) quality of their products and that they would not improve them since the beginning. Also they released suddenly. They didn't promote any advertisement videos to build hype.

If today's statement was released at the beginning of December, when the first AviationLads videos were released showing this aircraft, this whole discussion here would be much smaller, summing up just to people putting their point of view about the early access model and moving on.

After all the hype built up by AviationLads videos, a week before the release, they drop the bombshell that the aircraft is still a long way from final state, but they will release anyway. It was enough to create chaos. I said earlier that a big part of this whole debate is essentially about broken expectations and not just because of the early access model.

In short: It's the devs fault that this whole discussion got to this point. Not because they chose to release this early access, but because it was very poorly and belatedly communicated. They wait for the hype to reach the top and then teared it apart. And as if that wasn't bad enough, the dev made statements on a live stream that were misunderstood and turned against them.

Today's statement is a month late.

[NJ_Flyer 3]

On 1/7/2023 at 9:15 PM, francy25 said:

My two cents on this product from what I have seen from the various videos/streams (I am type rated on the Ejets family):

MCDU: the pages I have seen looks mostly incomplete or wrong. 

They claim to have used the LOAD 27 of the EPIC SUITE (the "operating system" of the EJets) on the plane that I fly usually we havethe LOAD25.7 so not the same system but I highly doubt there are such diffrences on the mcdu. 

 

Fancy25, I cropped the quoted section to cut it down slightly.

My fleet (E190 only) uses Load 25.7, but the sim we use is Load 27. The differences are just enough to be annoying as far as the MCDU goes. The layout is almost the same, but some important pages have been moved/split/added to etc. So, without sitting down with the FCOM, I can't say their MCDU is right or wrong. Not to mention VNAV... different beast in Load 27.

[Fiorentoni 4,253]

1 hour ago, NJ_Flyer said:

Fancy25, I cropped the quoted section to cut it down slightly.

My fleet (E190 only) uses Load 25.7, but the sim we use is Load 27. The differences are just enough to be annoying as far as the MCDU goes. The layout is almost the same, but some important pages have been moved/split/added to etc. So, without sitting down with the FCOM, I can't say their MCDU is right or wrong. Not to mention VNAV... different beast in Load 27.

From what I‘ve heard VNAV is much better with Load 27 and - again from what I‘ve head - most SOPs (with Load 27) now prescribe the continuous usage of VNAV from takeoff to approach.
As for the MCDU I don‘t think it really matters for this product at the moment if the layout is correct to the point, because it‘s just a cosmetic mask for the MSFS default FMS, which means it won‘t work as in the real aircraft anyway. Most options/pages are greyed out anyway from what I‘ve seen in the previews.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Fiorentoni

[Abriael 952]

And this is what happens when people stoke the flames of internet rage and manufacture an overemotional narrative made of fictional "liars" and "traitors" and starts villainizing developers. There's always gonna be someone ready to carry that ball further and start blindly lashing out. 

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=620099033450205&set=a.399014965558614&comment_id=1161004781472953&notif_id=1673340125732421&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Abriael

[micstatic 4,323]

5 hours ago, Abriael said:

And this is what happens when people stoke the flames of internet rage and manufacture an overemotional narrative made of fictional "liars" and "traitors" and starts villainizing developers. There's always gonna be someone ready to carry that ball further and start blindly lashing out. 

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=620099033450205&set=a.399014965558614&comment_id=1161004781472953&notif_id=1673340125732421&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif

 

I can’t blame fsimstudios who makes a fantastic product for not wanting to be associated with a product that does not look fantastic 

[regis9 4,026]

The devs of the E175 should have googled their desired name before choosing it.  There are lots of other options that aren’t nearly identical to an established, high quality developer.  FSimStudios are innocent collateral damage from all of this.  

Edited January 10, 2023 by regis9