Here's my reflections after Dev LiveStream 07/23. My optimism stalls midair. I duplicate my post on the Microsoft official forum looking for some "support" here as well 😉 I propose the creation of Psychological Support Group 😉

Source: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/july-23rd-2025-developer-livestream-discussion/730931/20

Quote

I think I’ve attended all the Developer Livestream since they exist. It’s the first one that make me feel discouraged. I feel starting losing faith in the Microsoft and Asobo staff to get out of all problems listed during this stream. It was an endless raw of “it’s complex” “it’s difficult” “rest assure we do our best” “the team is working on it” “ongoing” “maybe in SU3 or SU4 I don’t know”…

MSFS2024 was officially released 248 days ago.

From my perspective, previous Livestreams drew a positive path and roadmap. This times, I have the weird feeling that Jorg, Sebastian and Martial and hundred of staff behind are powerless in front of the difficulties. They were unable to light the end of the tunnel. No offence, it’s a huge task on the communication side first and the technical development part. A huge huge task. How can I help as a simmers? is an honest self question that I share here. I beta test, I share feedback, I engage with the community… What else can I do?

Maybe it’s time to change the format and structure of these livestream? I feel sad for Marwan Gharib from FlightFX sandwiched between bugs discussion. Maybe splitting it in different smaller streams (SDK, Console, Career, MarketPlace) ? Shorten the format? Onboarding new representatives? I did enjoy the direct communication driven by Jorg and I feel it reaches it’s limit.

Who am I? I can qualified myself as a supporter of MSFS and PC Sim. I spent certainly too much of my spare time simflying GA :slight_smile: helping fellow simmers on various forums and Facebook groups, Beta testing all versions, actively engaging the communities every day. I also develop amateur’ish small airfields missing in the sim and offering them freely as my way of giving back for all I’ve received from this amazing community.. In short : Enjoying MSFS.

 

 

Source: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/july-23rd-2025-developer-livestream-discussion/730931/20

My take is that it is a very complex product and Asobo are doing what they can. Being a big, live product they cannot implement big changes quickly without making everything fall apart so they're following a cautious approach: let's tap the holes we can tap right now, we'll think about the ship's hull shape, size ecc later. It's quite normal for them to appear not as enthusiatic as in the past as they're in the middle of hard, laborius, backend work - no flashy things to show right now. This is the core of backend work - everything is in the works, it's complex and it's difficult. This is just what any big and complex project looks from the inside. Frankly, usually the companies don't show glimpses of these moments, the features and patches come out of the blue as they're ready, but Asobo has chosen to communicate with us openly, showing the problems and difficulties for which I'm personally very thankful. Take it for what it is: right now we have a beautiful, constantly evolving sim and an ambitious team willing to do everything they can to do the best they can. Everytime I watch their streams I'd like just to say them "Thank you guys for what you're doing! For every mean comment there are hundreds of people filled with joy from your work!".

I just don't agree with that take at all. They addressed what seemed to me all the major pain points that the community identified.

Yes there was a lot of talk about complexity, but I think the purpose of that was to get people to understand this is a complex platform and no easy answers. But at the same time there are plans to improve.

Take VRAM issues, for example. They said the issue wasn't just some memory leak somewhere or a bug you could point at. It's all the different aspects of the sim that need to be loaded in at just the right time, and you have to orchestrate how all of this happens on the fly. They've been working on optimising that process, and optimising every bit of the sim that has to go into VRAM individually. 

And there's a plan here – lots of work done on this during SU3, with more to come (possibly why it might be delayed). And there's even more stuff to come in SU4 as they continue to improve.

WASM crashes – the team are developing a better way to handle errors and preserve stability, they are planning to implement that in SU4.

MainThread – Seb talked about a new way of managing CPU time that should offer better performance and they are excited about that. Aiming to do that for SU4. 

And on top of this, the amount of fixes and improvements they implemented since release. Sure, I totally get the sim wasn't released in a great state but the progress is undeniable. And not for a second did I get a sense they didn't know what they were doing and had no plans.

Topic for this dev stream already exists: 

 

Edited July 24, 2025Jul 24 by lwt1971

Am I the only one who has never watched one of these streams?  For me they are far too long.  I just don't have the time.  It does sound like they are all over the place and would be better off being made smaller.  Personally, I would not be flying 2024 every day if it wasn't in good shape.  It varies person to person, but 2020 was far more problematic for me.  

Do you want them to give you a realistic timeline or not?  The problem is likely that there are competing "#1 priorities".  They've got to pick some to work on now, and others later, and often, complexity comes into play.  Easier things get pushed up.  

I work in software development (not gaming).  Coding takes as long as it takes (and usually longer than everyone estimates).  I mean, how many things are still on the 2020 "some day" list?  We all want things faster, but that's often just not realistic.  

 

Edited July 24, 2025Jul 24 by kerosene31

I haven't really the time to watch those streams but development of something as detailed and complex as a flight sim is absolutely extraordinary, and they have undoubtedly revolutionised the sim experience with MSFS. FS2024 was initially unusable for me and I couldn't see the point, but now it really is getting there - I mainly stick to FS2020 simply because of the availability of most of my favourite add-ons, but 2024 is really impressive and I thoroughly enjoy using it. They should take their time. I can understand people feeling there is no light at the end of the tunnel but you really have to look back and see how much progress has been made. As said, in my view, 2024 was largely unusable on release; that certainly isn't the case now. And I really want to encourage rather than discourage Asobo and all other developers who help make my simming so enjoyable. Just as people moan about Blackbird taking their time re. the 757 - don't! It'll be out when it's out, and the same with 2024. It will develop but that takes time. The MSFS weather is something that I find frustratingly limited (it LOOKS so beatuiful, as everything else does in the sim, but it's basically just one cloud type with little recplication of actual met phenomena) - but it's still usable and will improve with time. Patience is a virtue! And, as Craig says, making these things is so unbelievably complex. I can just about build my own PC.

2 hours ago, Georgleboui said:

MainThread – Seb talked about a new way of managing CPU time that should offer better performance and they are excited about that. Aiming to do that for SU4. 

This was the biggest takeaway for me, and you could see enthusiasm from Jorg about it. 

I am not discouraged at all, although I will say the tone of this livestream did come across as somewhat muted. This may be because a large portion of it was dedicated to issues that the community has that are as people said above quite complex and difficult. They have also been at this a long time and I felt they may be fatigued. I am not saying they are but having managed software and system development there are times when teams get tired. Hopefully they will get a break after SU3 with some time off in the summer.

Many of the comments I read on forums suggest that people do not, and perhaps cannot because they do not have the background, appreciate the complexity and difficulty of what they are working on. MSFS2024 is likely in excess of 10 million lines of base code, not the largest consumer-facing codebase but certainly one of the largest and definitely enormous for its genre. FSX was in the ballpark of 2 to 3 million lines of code. That codebase is also extremely complex with  massive data orchestration and rendering pipelines. Profiling and refactoring that code, trying to optimize it at the complier level so the machine code is more efficient, is a lot of time consuming work, and coordinating those workflows just as demanding in their own way. What Asobo is working on certainly has value outside of a flight game and while I do not know the scope of the agreement between Asobo and Microsoft some of the value of this "game" is the intellectual property that it is generating. For the vast majority of us this is a hobby and we just want the game to run well, be stable, and give us the experience of flight we are looking for; but to get where we are has required a lot of long, hard hours of intellectual work. I kind of chuckle when people describe Asobo as incompetent.

 

So i did not get that discouraging read from the live stream at all. As someone who has no issues with being critical about their approach with MSFS2024.. especially in the past when Martial would roll eyes at certain questions or Asobo's CEO would act surprised at hearing about some bug or major issue raging in the forums. In contrast, yesterdays livestream gave me the impression that the issues being brought up.. Especially the major ones like VRAM usage are understood, and they also know the complicated path in addressing the issue. The simconnect issue was explained to my satisfaction at least and they owned the weather depiction issue (small cotton balls lumped together to generate cloud coverage) and promised to revisit the depiction engine knowing that its going to be a heavy lift that will have to be taken up after most of the showstopping bugs get fixed. My impression of this livestream was that every topic or issue that was brought up appeared to have a realistic answer even from Martial who most of the time aggravates the hell out of me (could be a cultural French display of indifference that i am not used to) But even he stepped up with some coherent answers yesterday . There will not be any magic wands or instant fixes and i am ok with being told that up front. 

Oh i forgot to add... Jorg's acknowledgement that the UI is presently an abomination (In my opinion) and that consultations are taking place with UX experts who should know how to implement effective improvements was definitely a positive in my book. Even if they do not make any improvements in the short to medium term it shows that some lessons have been learned and taken on board for the next time a UI has to be conceptualized and hopefully mistakes are not repeated.

To me this was one of the better livestreams as the responses indicated more attuned issue awareness and the responses were more thought out and credible. 

Edited July 24, 2025Jul 24 by Maxis

Look on the bright side! Microsoft just recently layoff  off couple thousands workers in xbox department, but MSFS (knock on the wood) still there for now.  

It seems to me that 2024 was released way too early. They should have released it as a beta and probably not GA it until after SU4 by the sounds of it.

Charging full price for what was shipped last year is another blemish on the game industry which continues to ship products too early and then fix them post release. This pattern is frustrating as a consumer. But how do we break this pattern?

I waited 6+ months hoping most of the teething issues would be resolved, but it’s going to take at least a couple more releases to just fix the major bugs, never mind fix the missing features (like live ship traffic). 

For me ( I never fully watch the streams, but FFW along them skipping parts I believe will not add to my knowledge ) the message passed by Jorg(MS) and the other two(ASOBO) was rather positive simply because:

- they acknowledged problems reported, some complex and already under their scrutiny, and have shown positive intentions to continue to work and solve those problems, even the most complex;

- they made reference to aspects of the simulation under analysis and under investigation and experimentation for fixes coming probably already with SU4;

- SDK specific stream will take place somewhere along next September, bringing additional functionalities for developers;

- Quirks with the Marketplace were identified by Jorg himself, and they're aiming for fine tunning bringing better performance and usability;

Heck! Aren't these - all of it !!! - positive news? For me they are, together with the reassurance that MSFS if very Alive and in Good Shape from a business perspective 👍

I've had the best 8 months fight simming of my whole life. And I started in 1982 🙂

Vincent I appreciate all the incredible work you've done with your airports and mods, and all for free!  This does not go unnoticed.

I'm not in agreement with your general opinion though.  I just recall the beginning of 2020, it had soooo many bugs.  I think what happened is that we were all surprised at the huge jump 2020 was from FSX or P3D that we were simply okay with the buggy release state.  IMO people expected the 2024 release to be bug free and build on the successful state that 2020 was 4 years after it was released.  No sim in the Microsoft Flight Simulator franchise has ever had a bug free release in the first year.  2020 wasn't in a solid state until almost 2 years in... and that basically coincided with payware releases from popular developers as well.  I recall FSX RTM running like garbage on new systems at the time too lol!  FSX wasn't truly sound until SP2/Acceleration.

That all being said, I do share your opinion about how the material was presented yesterday.  I think they mentioned 2k bugs lol?  Honestly I don't think there's a way to treat every single bug - there are still annoying ones in 2020, especially related to scenery.  But I really think they should have skipped that part... and yes there was a lot of "we're trying our best."  They probably need to bring in a TON more employees but that also means a TON more expenses.

As for the MSFS Community, it's very evident that some users want 2024 to fail.  The debates here get quite outrageous at times.  If 2024 fails, 2020 will fail with it.  And that's not good for MSFS users at all!  As someone like you, who has put 1000's of freeware hours into liveries (you: scenery), it is simply not doable to support older products for free over and over.  I get a lot of requests to look at some little texture issue with some livery I did 3 years ago.  I have a life, family, BILLS etc.  I can't keep updating everything for free.  And I feel this translates into MSFS 2020.  We've had 16 world updates and how many sim updates with INCREDIBLE FREE avionics and systems from Working Title.  How many more should we expect from a five year old simulator?  Microsoft has to pay bills too.  And then came 2024.  But yeah I admit the release state wasn't pretty, and the launch day was highly unacceptable.  But it happened, and it's been working pretty well for me since day 2.  SU1 and 2 have been even better.

SU3 from what I've been reading has addressed many more issues, and more and more products are arriving for 2024.  I feel the spool up has been slower than I'd hoped, but 2024 is turning into a great sim, just as 2020 did.

And in case MSFS does fail, there's always XP12 LOL (I just had to post that!)

edit: one more thing.  I gave your post a "like" because I like the way you presented it, not "MSFS 2024 is garbage it's a pile of word not allowede why doesnt it work" like most of the haters here.  You presented your arguments like a human so thanks!

 

Edited July 24, 2025Jul 24 by ryanbatc

I agree with what is being said now, this stream had a shift to really acknowledge the deeper level issues in a more direct,  straightforward and honest manner. And these issues -- performance optimization, sim-connect and WASM crashes, and what I think most agree is a deplorable UI and Storefront are not simple fixes; they are going to require a lot of work and testing and reviewing data and then working, testing and reviewing data. Maybe what was coming across was their honest portrayal of the work involved and that it is going to take them a long time. As Maxis said above, they are medium to long-term effort but at least we know they are taking the issues seriously and working on it. This was not a flashy look at all the new content and features stream.

This said, for me 2024 has been very stable and performance has been great. I am enjoying the best simulation of flight I have ever had in over 30 years and am so impressed by the increasing complexity of addons in an increasingly rich ecosystem. So while I want these issues resolved because I do not like that some people can hardly play the game; it is important not to project that experience as being dominant; I think like me and St Mawgan and jcomm above, many of us are having a really great time with 2024.