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Environment Force Discussion Thread

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On 5/4/2019 at 11:47 PM, colartkit said:

Can EF be installed on networked client pc?  The manual says it installs into P3D.  Anyone tried it?

I would be interested in this,too. The fact there's been no answer so far seems to indicate this isn't an option.

Kind regards, Michael


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Hi Simmers!

This is how I managed the excessive bloom in P3D with REX EF. I use P3D 4.5 and installed AS, SF, EF AND the latest updates/version of REX EF (should be 2 updates/hotfixes till now), or just download the latest REX EF version. I do not have Envshade and ASCA installed.

  • Deleted Shaders and P3D folder "Shader HSHL"
  • Repair P3D Client (to install the deleted folder "Shader HSHL"
  • I did use PTA ONLY to adjust VC Lightning! But I would recommend to test this first without an applied PTA Profile (you don´t have to uninstall the PTA  tool in my opinion)
  • Start P3D without REX EF
  • Set desired HDR settings in P3D GUI (HDR ticked on and sliders set to desired position - TopDown: 1.00 - 0.05 - 1.10 in my case)
  • Start a scenario to let the shaders build by P3D
  • Close P3D
  • Start REX EF
  • Important: Set REX EF to Automated Mode
  • Start P3D
  • Start a scenario in daytime (not for sure if that is important, but I did started this scenario at 12:00 o´Clock and without any weather program like AS)
  • Important: Switch to an outside view and stay there! (I will explain later why I did this)
  • In REX EF mini GUI, under section "Shader" should be displayed "Turn Off HDR" (this should be the text shown up, so your Rex Shaders are now "on"/"activated"!!).
  • Reset in REX EF mini GUI to "Manufactoring Settings" (tickbox in the upper section), 
  • Tick "Recompile Shaders" in REX mini GUI  under "Shaders" (so you still are in the outside view)
  • Important: Set in REX mini GUI in the "Rex Anhanced HDR" section the "TimeDelta to o.ooo"
  • Set the Rest of the HDR settings as desired (ExposureKey, BloomBlurSigma, etc.). I didn't change anything with exception the "TimeDelta to 0.000" (This was important in my case
  • Save settings in the upper section in Rex mini GUI (this tickbox is new in the latest Version of REX EF)

That should be it!

In my case only this way helped me to avoid excessive bloom. The trick was TimeDelta 0.000 and stay in outside view.

Now I will explain the "TimeDelta 0.000" setting. In my case this helped to avoid, that the excessive bloom came back after switching and panning views or playing with the TimePreview of P3D (from daytime to nighttime and then back to daytime). For example I did recognize, that using a PMDG 747-8 (just tested with that one), otherwise the excessive bloom returned and often stays till I switch to an outside view again. After switching to an outside view, the excessive bloom reduced (probably due the TimeDelta standard 0.250 Setting). That irritated me. That´s the main reason why I did my HDR settings only in the outside view and set TimeDelta to 0.000!

Interesting to me seemed also, that this excessive bloom behavior is worse in a PMDG plane (tested only with 747-8) as in a standard P3D plane (F22 Raptor). it seemed to me, that in case of using a standard F22 Raptor, the excessive bloom did also reduce if you are and stay inside the cockpit! That "reducing" wasn't the case in a PMDG 747-8 cockpit. Only if I switched to an outside view OR moved my view from inside the cockpit to just a few inches outside the cockpit (actually moved my eyepoint through the cockpit window from inside to outside), I saw how REX EF reduced the excessive bloom. This behavior affected on my display as well with or without VR! That behavior I managed by setting TimeDelta to 0.000.

Please report back if this helps generally. I will not discuss why I did all this steps or if they are necessary or not. It  just worked for me and that´s why I share it with you all. Decice by yourself if you would give it a try or not.

Good luck to you and happy simming!

Best regards, Marcus

 

Edited by mpo910
  • Like 2

Regards,

Marcus P.

xaP1VAU.png

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REX is a very rogue team. I have been buying REX products for the latest release. Some time after the release of REX5 sky force, I was unknowingly added to the internal testing team and obtained the permission to report user reports in the forum. After getting the beta version, I tested a lot of problems, such as sudden weather changes in the airport, delays in reading weather data, etc. Screenshots and videos were sent to the designated area of the forum. After several internal beta versions, these issues have not been resolved. However, the tragedy happened, REX actually blocked my forum ID, the reason is to leak the function of the beta version. This is inexplicable. I am innocent and try to appeal, but they can't give specific reasons and claim that the rules are the rules. I decided to stop supporting REX products in the future, which is very frustrating.

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2 hours ago, cdv0007 said:

REX is a very rogue team. I have been buying REX products for the latest release. Some time after the release of REX5 sky force, I was unknowingly added to the internal testing team and obtained the permission to report user reports in the forum. After getting the beta version, I tested a lot of problems, such as sudden weather changes in the airport, delays in reading weather data, etc. Screenshots and videos were sent to the designated area of the forum. After several internal beta versions, these issues have not been resolved. However, the tragedy happened, REX actually blocked my forum ID, the reason is to leak the function of the beta version. This is inexplicable. I am innocent and try to appeal, but they can't give specific reasons and claim that the rules are the rules. I decided to stop supporting REX products in the future, which is very frustrating.

so  what is  you  reason  for  posting  this  which has  no bearing to the  thread


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@mpo910

Hi, thanks for sharing. I've not tried your suggestion yet. But I've tried many different things and thought I had found the answers until running P3D at a later time. ATM the simple thing I find works is turning OFF EF HDR in the miniUI. Then I get back full control within P3D HDR interface and gain back my TS VC lighting.

But...am not sure this is the right solution as I have no idea what the consequences of this are, I've just asked the question on REX forums. But I feel it means a lot of the Auto lighting is being left off. Not sure. 

I did notice bloom on the outside views is greater than in the VC so I can see why compiling the shaders with an outside view could work. Still, this problem is not fixed when using TS/PTS imo.

 


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36 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

TS VC lighting.

Dave, Quick question if you don't mind. How do you set up TS VC lighting only ? 


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1 hour ago, ZKOKQ said:

Dave, Quick question if you don't mind. How do you set up TS VC lighting only ? 

https://forums.flightsimlabs.com/index.php?/topic/20565-pulling-up-at-the-gate-gcrr/

  • Upvote 1

David Murden  MSFS   Fenix A320  PMDG 737 • MG Honda Jet • 414 / TDS 750Xi •  FS-ATC Chatter • FlyingIron Spitfire & ME109G • MG Honda Jet 

 Fenix A320 Walkthrough PDF   Flightsim.to •

DCS  A10c II  F-16c  F/A-18c • F-14 • (Others in hanger) • Supercarrier  Terrains = • Nevada NTTR  Persian Gulf  Syria • Marianas • 

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4 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Just what the doctor ordered. Thanks David.


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So has the EF hot fix solved any problems here?

gb.


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The second HF called Technical Update 1.1.0 has been rolled back acc. to my knowledge (meaning it was online for a very short period of time, then it was taken offline).

These guys (REX) realy need to throttle down a bit. I know we all want for EF to work but it seems there are deeper problems that need to be adressed. They shouldn't have launched EF yet IMHO.

Edited by GEKtheReaper

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Brace yourself, this is going to be a long rant:

First and foremost: I believe EF is an amazing product, it takes P3D visuals and weather depiction on a whole new level and improves immersion significantly, once you have everything dialed in properly.

But......there is a big BUT:

EF should have been initially released as a paid beta (a.k.a "early access") with a clear warning right next to the BUY button, stating that it may not provide a satisfying result without heavy tinkering involved. With this in mind, a potential customer can decide if its worth to risk messing up a (subjective) perfectly looking sim in order to gain some extra visual glory and better representation of certain weather scenarios.

Dont get me wrong, i'm not saying this should be early access because its still super-buggy or feature incomplete. But Rex EF adds a new layer of shader control by modifying compiled shaders, allowing realtime changes while the sim is running without the need to recompile shaders to see the result. It doesnt actually replace those traditional and lately very popular base shader tools like PTA, TS or Envshade, which are mutually exclusive as they all do the same. 

So we are basically modifying shaders that have been compiled out of potentially modified base shaders (by PTA, TS, Envshade) and some of us even add an additional layer of post processing shaders with reshade.....what could possibly go wrong, right?

These 3 layers of shader control result in an ungodly number of possible combinations, thrown at highly individual sim environments consisting of different hardware, drivers, P3D versions and 3rd party addons. Even a public beta/early access release wouldnt be able to cover all of this, but it would certainly help to collect a much broader range of useful data than closed circle testing.

 

Now lets talk about Rex....for flightsim addon developer standards they are mighty good at the marketing and PR game, arent they? At the same time they are terribly bad at explaining how their products actually work and they didnt really seem to bother about managing customer expectations. IMHO, this is the main reason why this community has rather mixed feelings about EF, to put it mildly.

On the REX store EF page we find this promising, yet bold, claim:

Compatible with all other add-ons!

Well thats technically correct, i guess. Its just unfortunate that there's no mention of the fact that EF's Auto-Mode is purely based on stock shaders, which means that any base shader modifications applied by other tools can have a significant impact on the outcome...like the excessive bloom many of us are experiencing.

Those among us who know a thing or two about the inner workings of a sim may say its obvious that different shader tools will interfere with each other. Some even enjoy spending hours and hours to fine tune the looks of their sim, without much actual flying. But there's another species of fellow simmers....those who just want to fly and have fun, while still seeking something better than vanilla P3D visuals. Many use PTA,TS or Envshade as the community presets offer a simple, one click solution for improved visuals without too much hassle. And EF's Auto Mode surely sounds attractive to them as its another fire and forget solution.

And then they boot up P3D after EF installation just to be greeted by a graphical mess causing serious eye bleeding. Followed by anger, disappointment and the feeling of being robbed as they just spent 30 quid for broken visuals 

Why didnt Rex bother to warn about potential conflicts with other graphic mods? Were they afraid it may hurt sales? Well, they now have to deal with a lot of angry customers and damaged reputation....its gonna be fun for sure

With all the data that could be gathered during a public beta phase they could implement a setup wizard, asking users about other shader tools they may be using, and based on that, offering suggestions on what features need to be toned down or turned off completely in other tools in order to prevent conflicts and achieve a satisfying, balanced result as intended by the developers.

But nope, they leave it up to us to figure out whats working and what not. First-time user experience is something that shouldnt be underestimated in software development....

 

 

 

 

Edited by Woozie
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  • Upvote 3

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2 hours ago, Woozie said:

Brace yourself, this is going to be a long rant:

First and foremost: I believe EF is an amazing product, it takes P3D visuals and weather depiction on a whole new level and improves immersion significantly, once you have everything dialed in properly.

But......there is a big BUT:

EF should have been initially released as a paid beta (a.k.a "early access") with a clear warning right next to the BUY button, stating that it may not provide a satisfying result without heavy tinkering involved. With this in mind, a potential customer can decide if its worth to risk messing up a (subjective) perfectly looking sim in order to gain some extra visual glory and better representation of certain weather scenarios.

Dont get me wrong, i'm not saying this should be early access because its still super-buggy or feature incomplete. But Rex EF adds a new layer of shader control by modifying compiled shaders, allowing realtime changes while the sim is running without the need to recompile shaders to see the result. It doesnt actually replace those traditional and lately very popular base shader tools like PTA, TS or Envshade, which are mutually exclusive as they all do the same. 

So we are basically modifying shaders that have been compiled out of potentially modified base shaders (by PTA, TS, Envshade) and some of us even add an additional layer of post processing shaders with reshade.....what could possibly go wrong, right?

These 3 layers of shader control result in an ungodly number of possible combinations, thrown at highly individual sim environments consisting of different hardware, drivers, P3D versions and 3rd party addons. Even a public beta/early access release wouldnt be able to cover all of this, but it would certainly help to collect a much broader range of useful data than closed circle testing.

 

Now lets talk about Rex....for flightsim addon developer standards they are mighty good at the marketing and PR game, arent they? At the same time they are terribly bad at explaining how their products actually work and they didnt really seem to bother about managing customer expectations. IMHO, this is the main reason why this community has rather mixed feelings about EF, to put it mildly.

On the REX store EF page we find this promising, yet bold, claim:

Compatible with all other add-ons!

Well thats technically correct, i guess. Its just unfortunate that there's no mention of the fact that EF's Auto-Mode is purely based on stock shaders, which means that any base shader modifications applied by other tools can have a significant impact on the outcome...like the excessive bloom many of us are experiencing.

Those among us who know a thing or two about the inner workings of a sim may say its obvious that different shader tools will interfere with each other. Some even enjoy spending hours and hours to fine tune the looks of their sim, without much actual flying. But there's another species of fellow simmers....those who just want to fly and have fun, while still seeking something better than vanilla P3D visuals. Many use PTA,TS or Envshade as the community presets offer a simple, one click solution for improved visuals without too much hassle. And EF's Auto Mode surely sounds attractive to them as its another fire and forget solution.

And then they boot up P3D after EF installation just to be greeted by a graphical mess causing serious eye bleeding. Followed by anger, disappointment and the feeling of being robbed as they just spent 30 quid for broken visuals 

Why didnt Rex bother to warn about potential conflicts with other graphic mods? Were they afraid it may hurt sales? Well, they now have to deal with a lot of angry customers and damaged reputation....its gonna be fun for sure

With all the data that could be gathered during a public beta phase they could implement a setup wizard, asking users about other shader tools they may be using, and based on that, offering suggestions on what features need to be toned down or turned off completely in other tools in order to prevent conflicts and achieve a satisfying, balanced result as intended by the developers.

But nope, they leave it up to us to figure out whats working and what not. First-time user experience is something that shouldnt be underestimated in software development....

 

 

 

 

What's new?  This has happened to every REX release.  LOL

Cheers
bs

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18 pages...wow.

I'm sorry but rather than read 18 pages and I don't know where to look for an answer. I'm some what confused about these two products and are they both needed for the full effect?

I have REX5 - Skyforce 3D.

I see the new product Environment, which does weather transitions, on the fly, instead of injecting new weather ever so often.

But I don't get, other than the on the fly stuff, does Environment require Skyforce for setting cloud types and other environmental stuff? If not then does Environment come fully loaded with the same stuff as in Skyforce?

Why would I need both products, if I get Environment can I just delete Skyforce?

Yes I see a notice about buying a bundle, so there must be some reason for having both products? What would that be? Anything someone can offer to enlighten me would be useful.

 Bryan


Bryan Wallis aka "fltsimguy"

Maple Bay, British Columbia

Near CAM3

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3 hours ago, Woozie said:

Brace yourself, this is going to be a long rant:

First and foremost: I believe EF is an amazing product, it takes P3D visuals and weather depiction on a whole new level and improves immersion significantly, once you have everything dialed in properly.

But......there is a big BUT:

EF should have been initially released as a paid beta (a.k.a "early access") with a clear warning right next to the BUY button, stating that it may not provide a satisfying result without heavy tinkering involved. With this in mind, a potential customer can decide if its worth to risk messing up a (subjective) perfectly looking sim in order to gain some extra visual glory and better representation of certain weather scenarios.

Dont get me wrong, i'm not saying this should be early access because its still super-buggy or feature incomplete. But Rex EF adds a new layer of shader control by modifying compiled shaders, allowing realtime changes while the sim is running without the need to recompile shaders to see the result. It doesnt actually replace those traditional and lately very popular base shader tools like PTA, TS or Envshade, which are mutually exclusive as they all do the same. 

So we are basically modifying shaders that have been compiled out of potentially modified base shaders (by PTA, TS, Envshade) and some of us even add an additional layer of post processing shaders with reshade.....what could possibly go wrong, right?

These 3 layers of shader control result in an ungodly number of possible combinations, thrown at highly individual sim environments consisting of different hardware, drivers, P3D versions and 3rd party addons. Even a public beta/early access release wouldnt be able to cover all of this, but it would certainly help to collect a much broader range of useful data than closed circle testing.

 

Now lets talk about Rex....for flightsim addon developer standards they are mighty good at the marketing and PR game, arent they? At the same time they are terribly bad at explaining how their products actually work and they didnt really seem to bother about managing customer expectations. IMHO, this is the main reason why this community has rather mixed feelings about EF, to put it mildly.

On the REX store EF page we find this promising, yet bold, claim:

Compatible with all other add-ons!

Well thats technically correct, i guess. Its just unfortunate that there's no mention of the fact that EF's Auto-Mode is purely based on stock shaders, which means that any base shader modifications applied by other tools can have a significant impact on the outcome...like the excessive bloom many of us are experiencing.

Those among us who know a thing or two about the inner workings of a sim may say its obvious that different shader tools will interfere with each other. Some even enjoy spending hours and hours to fine tune the looks of their sim, without much actual flying. But there's another species of fellow simmers....those who just want to fly and have fun, while still seeking something better than vanilla P3D visuals. Many use PTA,TS or Envshade as the community presets offer a simple, one click solution for improved visuals without too much hassle. And EF's Auto Mode surely sounds attractive to them as its another fire and forget solution.

And then they boot up P3D after EF installation just to be greeted by a graphical mess causing serious eye bleeding. Followed by anger, disappointment and the feeling of being robbed as they just spent 30 quid for broken visuals 

Why didnt Rex bother to warn about potential conflicts with other graphic mods? Were they afraid it may hurt sales? Well, they now have to deal with a lot of angry customers and damaged reputation....its gonna be fun for sure

With all the data that could be gathered during a public beta phase they could implement a setup wizard, asking users about other shader tools they may be using, and based on that, offering suggestions on what features need to be toned down or turned off completely in other tools in order to prevent conflicts and achieve a satisfying, balanced result as intended by the developers.

But nope, they leave it up to us to figure out whats working and what not. First-time user experience is something that shouldnt be underestimated in software development....

 

 

 

 

Most of the facts here are incorrect. You can read the manuals, for example. The auto mode for example, has the same features as the manual mode. There are many others facts that are inaccurate.

I appreciate if you have really something constructive to share. you take your time to think your statements and be precise on your affirmations.

I invite you to have a constructive discussion of the product.

Thanks,

Federico

Edited by fs1
  • Like 8
  • Upvote 1

Federico Sucari

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6 hours ago, 1st fltsimguy said:

8 pages...wow.

I'm sorry but rather than read 18 pages and I don't know where to look for an answer. I'm some what confused about these two products and are they both needed for the full effect?

I have REX5 - Skyforce 3D.

I see the new product Environment, which does weather transitions, on the fly, instead of injecting new weather ever so often.

But I don't get, other than the on the fly stuff, does Environment require Skyforce for setting cloud types and other environmental stuff? If not then does Environment come fully loaded with the same stuff as in Skyforce?

Why would I need both products, if I get Environment can I just delete Skyforce?

Yes I see a notice about buying a bundle, so there must be some reason for having both products? What would that be? Anything someone can offer to enlighten me would be useful.

 Bryan

Hello Bryan,

there are so many wrong assumptions in your post that I would say: Stay away from EF at this time!

The first thing you should do is read the product pages provided by REX.

Now to your Q:

REX SF3D

- is a texture pack that would replace default cloud and sky textures in the sim. Indeed It should do more to the visuals that any other cloud texture offerings on the market (e.g. rain shaft etc.) --> many of us (including me) find these textures great.

- does also include a very basic weather engine --> you should not use it if you have other weather engines (it will be updated at some point).

- has a number of X texture packs including a number of Y variations each -> as a standalone App, it will inject only variations of your selected texture pack which still means a LOT of different clouds but they are from the same texturepack! --> this is a bit confusing for some (or many)

REX EF

- will inject textures based on athmospheric conditions thus will use SF3D in all it's glory injecting different variations from different texturepacks (it's for you to decide if the injected visuals match the reported weather...I for myself can't tell if the injected Cirrus layer should be from texturepack A and not B because I'm not familiar with the entire variety of textures...they are more or less the same but still a bit different if you know what I mean)

- in addition to injecting textures it will also change the scene lighting. On a bright shinny sunny day your grounds will be more bright, ocean watter more blue and reflective etc. On a rainy day these all would change beeing more greyish, non reflective etc....

 

So above a brief description of what I understand from the REX5 product line. As you can see, the products complement eachother so you should not delete SF3D if you buy EF.

Now EF is a very powerful tool which seems to have some issues at this time. So if you are not familiar with shader changing apps (that's the part thes doeas change the scene e.g. lighting) I recomend you to stay away from it at this time.

Edited by GEKtheReaper
  • Upvote 1

Gerald K. - Germany

Core i7 10700 / ASUS ROG Gaming-E / ASUS Strix  RTX 3090 OC / 32 Gb RAM GSKILL.

"Flightstick" = X56 HOTAS RGB Logitech

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