1 hour ago, SteveW said:

DX10 grew into DX12 from research gathered when building technology for FSX and games around then. There will be aspects of how things are done to be found again simply because of inheritance.

Weak. The only connection is an older version of DirectX. And of course, this still does Not imply there's Any actual FSX graphics code in FS2020. Please stop with this it's going nowhere.

Edited August 30, 20196 yr by Greazer

3 minutes ago, Greazer said:

Weak. The only connection is an older version of DirectX. And of course, this still does Not imply there's Any actual FSX graphics code in FS2020. Please stop with this it's going nowhere.

Why are you so focused only on "graphics code?" There are many other parts of the sim besides graphics after all!

Why would they need to completely rewrite keyboard handling code, or mouse routines? Why completely recode the FDE? Those are just a tiny sampling of the things that underlie the sim's essential structure.

In the fullness of time we will no doubt discover whether there are elements of the previous code in the "new" engine but in the interim it would be great if this "animated discussion" either comes to a swift end PDQ or moves to a new thread that all the rest of us can ignore.

15 minutes ago, Greazer said:

Weak. The only connection is an older version of DirectX. And of course, this still does Not imply there's Any actual FSX graphics code in FS2020. Please stop with this it's going nowhere.

I'm not implying there's any FSX graphics in the new sim.

9 minutes ago, SamYeager said:

 it would be great if this "animated discussion" either comes to a swift end PDQ or moves to a new thread that all the rest of us can ignore.

hear, hear !

22 minutes ago, SamYeager said:

whether there are elements of the previous code in the "new" engine

Personally I think that this topic is overrated. "Technique" isn't the same as "Technology", "Concept" isn't the same as "Code". You can do the same thing in any number of ways in software. So they have implemented things that remind people of another simulator. Doesn't mean that the new sim is even using the same approach to programming or the same language - just that the programmers adhered to the same concept.

And on another note: not every piece of code that displays graphics deserves the label "engine". An "engine" IMHO is a framework, a platform that has been designed specifically to be used by multiple different end products. Most games and sims out there don't have any "engine" (and if they do, the put the name of it in big letters on the adverts). Their graphics routines are custom made, for this product only. You normally can't swap something like that out without killing the whole application dead.

I don't see anything in these pictures or trailers that reminds me of "before". Even if there was, I wouldn't care. There are probably similarities between P3D and XPlane too if you just dig deep and long enough, scrutinizing every pixel.

Best regards

Edited August 30, 20196 yr by Lorby_SI

I've seen big trucks full of brand new pixels arriving at the Microsoft Factory for weeks. So it will definitely have all new graphics.

Edited August 30, 20196 yr by SteveW

1 hour ago, SteveW said:

I'm pretty sure mind control is in! 🤡

You'd certainly think so reading through this thread!

5 hours ago, Superdelphinus said:

Have any previous versions of flight simulator, or any of the other current simulators had force feedback? I play quite a lot of racing games (mainly iracing, assetto corsa and the f1 games these days) and the ffb is an essential part of the experience/ immersion for me. I’ve never had a yoke/ joystick with ffb, I don’t even know if they exist. Do they? Feeling the forces of flight through my hands/ feet would make me buy some though. 

Previous MSFS had it. I don't think X-Plane has native support, but it can be done with a 3rd party plugin interface. I don't know how good it is. 

DCS supports FFB, I think. The IL-2 sims Rise of Flight, Battle of Stalingrad etc. have robust native FFB support. I remember there was a hot market for used Microsoft FFB sticks when I was spending time in Rise of Flight.

What's holding it back as a standard feature is lack of good hardware. I'd kill for a FFB version of my Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS. If the new MSFS includes FFB support and Microsoft brings out an affordable FFB joystick and yoke, that might be enough to get the FFB train rolling again.

1 hour ago, Lorby_SI said:

I don't see anything in these pictures or trailers that reminds me of "before". 

And you won't because there is none. Basically, back in the day FS2004 was a poor performing engine. With FSX development ACES did not address the underlying engine, but instead they bolted all this extra stuff on. For example moving road traffic was one. End result was that on day one, FSX had abysmal frame rates, less than 10fps, even with new hardware. People on Amazon were writing bad reviews. As time went on and computers got faster, things hardly improved and all the old warts were still visible. The code from FSX dates back to the 80's and 90's. DLL hell. About 30 years old. So obviously by 2019, Microsoft made the good decision to ditch all that and work with partners for a totally new engine. And that's why we see these great previews, it's has nothing to do with FSX. And that's a good thing!

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I made an account specifically to express my immeasurable disappointment that a bunch of grown men can spend 7 pages arguing about autogen, old vs new code, and all the other nonsense on this thread (and others on the subject of FS2020).

Get a grip and take it somewhere else.

55 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

What's holding it back as a standard feature is lack of good hardware. I'd kill for a FFB version of my Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS. If the new MSFS includes FFB support and Microsoft brings out an affordable FFB joystick and yoke, that might be enough to get the FFB train rolling again

Doesn't Immersion (patent trolls) hold the patent for force feedback?

16 hours ago, Paraffin said:

I thought I made that clear in my post. Everyone here knows this is pre-Alpha. 

BF3 Alpha was a stuttering mess. 

There is no stuttering on the MFS videos on my end.

Edited August 30, 20196 yr by n4gix
REMOVED EXCESSIVE QUOTE!!! Please stop quoting the entire post you are replying to!

2 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I really don’t understand the obsession from non-programmers that everything has to be new code?  

Because when we see FSX and P3D stuttering it's obvious something is wrong and the engine isn't optimized or was poorly designed.

It runs but not just very well but using your logic let's just keep building on what we have.

Would it not be better to design a new engine for the sim?

If your car backfires and hesitates when you drive it you don't have to be a mechanic to understand that something is wrong and someone needs to take a look under the hood.

3 minutes ago, skully said:

If your car backfires and hesitates when you drive it you don't have to be a mechanic to understand that something is wrong and someone needs to take a look under the hood.

..most of us will bring to a mechanic to fix the issues, it not necessarily means you need a new engine..