11 hours ago, ckyliu said:

I haven't bought anything by PMDG since the J41

I used to be a die hard PMDG fan until they "patched" the 737 FSX version from working in P3D. I was happy to pay an upgrade fee but they wanted a full price purchase for essentially the same plane (no new code was needed, as it worked perfectly in P3D prior to their "patch"). After that, they lost a customer for life. Never will I pay them a penny again.

 

i cant coment on the 74 thats coming with FS2020 cause we all know that even if is not complete to some peoples standart it will only take some updates to make it a pmdg like plane . when it comes to buying airplanes all over again i dont complain cause then i turn around and buy it anyways . there are certain developers that people been complaining about their prices since 1947 but we and yes i said we keep buying it . its like apple products , I hate apple and talk then down all the time   but in reality  the only thing i got left to get from the apple store is a apple tattoo . 

Edited July 15, 20205 yr by rtodepart

15 hours ago, Huascar said:

It’s not a matter of affordability or being cheap - to me, this is an issue of principle. You purchase an aircraft for $135 and PMDG refuses to offer a discount to migrate to another sim platform. You are forced to pay full price for the same place. It’s not as if they had to rebuild the entire plane from scratch. To me, this implies that the company has no empathy for its customers. To his day, as far an I am concern, they have never offered a discount to it’s customers. If the default MSFS  747 is decent, now need to pay a $135 dollars.

If we want, that add-on can use every new advanced possibilities in MSFS, only model update isn't enough. Maybe for tranfer between FSX -> P3D they can do only a small update, but MSFS has a completely new graphics, physics and aerodynamics engine, so they have to build their model completely from zero. I accept their price, if I get a completely new model with all avaiable functionalities and visuals with MSFS, not only transferred old model to a new simulator.

16 hours ago, ckyliu said:

. I can afford these things, but I won't buy on principle; 

It is good to have principles. I do but tend to reserve them for more important matters than buying toys. Then again I am 71 and the wall gets nearer. That may explain why. I was a bit like you when younger. We have that saying in French : Ca leur passera avant que ça m’reprenne (they’ll grow out of it before it grows back in me). I grew out of it. Well, mostly. If you see a nice addon, a little outrageously expensive, buy it and enjoy. Principles are good but need to be trampled sometimes. Not too often. Sometimes.

PS do not take offense of this, it is meant as a friendly banter 😉.

On 7/14/2020 at 3:26 AM, Huascar said:

Already pre-ordered the premium delux edition of MSFS 2020. If the simulator lives to expectations, worth every dime. Just think for a second, a PMDG plane costs you $135 dollars, and that’s all you get...a plane. You pay $119 For MSFS and you get the world. If the planes are just as good, no need waste money with this third party software. I can afford the PMDGs, but out of principle I refuse to pay the cost. MSFS is revolutionary and everything about flight simulation will be different. Some may not survive it. Good luck to all those who sold me useless and destructive add-ons.

Bless, ignorance is bliss they say.

The Aircraft that come with it are nothing....nothing like a PMDG.

On 7/14/2020 at 5:26 AM, Huascar said:

Already pre-ordered the premium delux edition of MSFS 2020. If the simulator lives to expectations, worth every dime. Just think for a second, a PMDG plane costs you $135 dollars, and that’s all you get...a plane. You pay $119 For MSFS and you get the world. If the planes are just as good, no need waste money with this third party software. I can afford the PMDGs, but out of principle I refuse to pay the cost. MSFS is revolutionary and everything about flight simulation will be different. Some may not survive it. Good luck to all those who sold me useless and destructive add-ons.

Might be wiser to just take your money spending decisions to your own hands rather than waiting for some external power to let you off the hook. The chances of MSFS default planes rendering the high end 3rd party planes useless are slim to none. They won't save you from that same urge to pay whatever money you've decided to pay from them in the past again. If you decide to buy a 3rd party plane again, do your research to make sure it's going to be worth your money. Don't weigh in any features that you assume will be there (such as upgrade path to different platforms). Look what's there, read the reviews, decide. That way you won't feel so sour of your purchase decisions in the future.

And if you end up being let down by the MSFS default planes and find that they were not worth the 100+$/€ just remember, no one forced you to pay for them beforehand. You made that decision to preorder yourself.

Edited July 15, 20205 yr by Kopteeni

One thing missing in this conversation is who are the developers of the aircraft in the sim ?

We know the aircraft manufacturers invovled - Boeing etc

We have read before that PMDG have been involved - but who else for the other 29

I like the biz jets - and would love to know who has developed the Citation Longtitude

- an aircraft that has only been flying in general/real terms for less than year. 

To Me this aircraft - and the 787 alone are worth the whole price of the Premiere package

10 hours ago, rtodepart said:

there are certain developers that people been complaining about their prices since 1947...

Microsoft's predecessor? ActuallyQuiteSmallSoft with their Paper Aeroplane & Kite Simulator? 

32 minutes ago, jaytee73 said:

We have read before that PMDG have been involved

Have we? I don't recall seeing that.

The best possible advice I could give anyone considering the purchase of the premium editions is try out the default aircraft on the game pass for $1 first , there's no advantage to pre ordering, and jumping in with both feet while still blind to the product you may find the default aircraft aren't quite what you're expecting or hoping for and regret it.

 Then again you might be most satisfied, it's subjective I guess.

With regards to the default 747 being on a par with PMDG.......

The PMDG 747 contrary to some  opinion isn't over priced. it's over priced for some users maybe ,who either won't be aware of or have no need for the extremely complex system accuracy and failure modelling.

Viewed from the context of the depth of systems, options  and failures  that come with the PMDG 747 other mid priced offerings are actually overpriced in comparison considering their simplified modelling.

A default 747 and the PMDG versions are aimed at completely different markets , that should be obvious to everyone. If you're sat rubbing your hands together thinking you've got the bargain of the century grabbing a PMDG QOTS quality 747 for $59 you're sadly mistaken.

Temper your expectation to what a default aircraft should be like and you might end up pleasantly surprised and happy, rather than expecting a PMDG 747 in which case you'll be left disappointed and bitter on release day.

I'm unable to comment on the MSFS 747 but I don't think I'm breaking any NDAs by simply confirming I have flown it.

I've flown  real 747s for 23 years so I know my way around a 747 , my PMDG QOTS installation is not under threat.

 

 

    

 

Edited July 15, 20205 yr by jon b

23 hours ago, Huascar said:

It’s not a matter of affordability or being cheap - to me, this is an issue of principle. You purchase an aircraft for $135 and PMDG refuses to offer a discount to migrate to another sim platform. You are forced to pay full price for the same place. It’s not as if they had to rebuild the entire plane from scratch. To me, this implies that the company has no empathy for its customers. To his day, as far an I am concern, they have never offered a discount to it’s customers. If the default MSFS  747 is decent, now need to pay a $135 dollars.

They have offered discounts on their products. Just not ones that are good enough for you.

Based off your logic, the whole entire gaming I dustry is screwed up. I bought games for my play station or Xbox only to find out that I had to purchase them again at full price so I couLd play them on PC.

Economies of scale play into the argument as well. Microsoft prices the game at a level to where it doesnt break our backs because they expect to sell a ton of copies. They can charge lower prices for the sim because volume sells will most likely meet revenue requirements. 

PMDG doesn't have that luxury. They most likely don't expect everyone with p3d or fsx to buy their products. They most likely only expect a small number due to the fact at how niche their market is. Therefore, they are going to have to recoup cost and make a profit some how. They do this through pricing.

Long story short, you're comparing two different markets that have two different potentials for associated sells and revenue. 

Someone else implied that if we stop buying PMDG products then the price will come down. Look how well that theory is working during COVID-19 in other industries. 

I would bet PMDG would just stop making products for us because there is no more revenue streams to capture. 

 

We should not forget that the flight sim world that exists today is a result of the 3PD who have primarily given us a hobby and passion to live for since FSX release over 14 years ago. Without them, FS9/FSX and other derivatives will not be what it is today.

11 hours ago, Nyxx said:

Bless, ignorance is bliss they say.

The Aircraft that come with it are nothing....nothing like a PMDG.

You know what PMDG isn't like? The entire simulator that you get with MSFS. This is just silly.

Yeah, you get a great plane with PMDG products. With MSFS you are getting the entire base sim. The value proposition is valid.

Exactly this... 

4 hours ago, jon b said:

The PMDG 747 contrary to some  opinion isn't over priced. it's over priced for some users maybe ,who either won't be aware of or have no need for the extremely complex system accuracy and failure modelling.

Viewed from the context of the depth of systems, options  and failures  that come with the PMDG 747 other mid priced offerings are actually overpriced in comparison considering their simplified modelling.

A default 747 and the PMDG versions are aimed at completely different markets , that should be obvious to everyone. If you're sat rubbing your hands together thinking you've got the bargain of the century grabbing a PMDG QOTS quality 747 for $59 you're sadly mistaken.

..and this:

4 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

Economies of scale play into the argument as well. Microsoft prices the game at a level to where it doesnt break our backs because they expect to sell a ton of copies. They can charge lower prices for the sim because volume sells will most likely meet revenue requirements. 

PMDG doesn't have that luxury. They most likely don't expect everyone with p3d or fsx to buy their products. They most likely only expect a small number due to the fact at how niche their market is. Therefore, they are going to have to recoup cost and make a profit some how. They do this through pricing.

 

 

28 minutes ago, bonchie said:

This is just silly.

No, it isn't. It may be silly to you however which is absolutely fine. It may not have to be silly for somebody else.

29 minutes ago, bonchie said:

The value proposition is valid.

Yes, it is. We all make such "value" decisions every day. I am on the market for a new Porsche 718 and wonder if extra 50 hp is worth an additional $12 k to me. Or if "natural" leather is worth an additional $ 3 k.