So to summarise this discussion  .....everyone wants something different.

Or to paraphrase the great John Shuttleworth ( versatile singer/ songwriter from Sheffield South Yorkshire)

One simulator is never enough, but two is one too many.

( I seriously doubt anyone will have a clue what I’m talking about😂, but you never know)

5 minutes ago, jon b said:

( I seriously doubt anyone will have a clue what I’m talking about😂, but you never know)

Totally agree.  I certainly do not.

Contrails anyone????  Traffic anyone????

 

Edited December 2, 20205 yr by fppilot

7 hours ago, Gridley said:

Great discussion all.  Here's my follow up.

In my opinion, the best part about this experience is VoxATC.  I can communicate with ATC using voice only, and VoxATC controls the AI so it's interactive and aware of me.  Sure, the A2A plane is very fun to fly, and the RXP GTN 750 is a nice bit of kit, and the real real-world weather via ASP3D adds a ton of realism, but nothing tips the scales for me as much as VoxATC.  Once I can do that in MSFS, then I'll revisit it.

 

PS - yes, Simbol, my AI does need some reborn!

VoxATC, probably quite wonderful if you live in a large house and have your own room for Simming.😄

For those ordinary mortals who have to share an "open-plan" with other family and a TV set, all while trying to fly, out of the question. That is why I use Radar Contact, headphones and a keyboard.

6 hours ago, IanHarrison said:

VoxATC, probably quite wonderful if you live in a large house and have your own room for Simming.😄

Although VOXATC requires that a microphone must be installed, in First Officer mode, it is possible to fly IFR without using the mic, as the FO handles all communications with ATC. A headset limits any other audio from the sim.

14 hours ago, Gridley said:

Great discussion all.  Here's my follow up.

In my opinion, the best part about this experience is VoxATC.  I can communicate with ATC using voice only, and VoxATC controls the AI so it's interactive and aware of me.  Sure, the A2A plane is very fun to fly, and the RXP GTN 750 is a nice bit of kit, and the real real-world weather via ASP3D adds a ton of realism, but nothing tips the scales for me as much as VoxATC.  Once I can do that in MSFS, then I'll revisit it.

 

PS - yes, Simbol, my AI does need some reborn!

Can VoxATC be used w/o voice at all?

I'm still using Radar Contact but looking for a better experience

10 minutes ago, Shomron said:

Can VoxATC be used w/o voice at all?

See my post directly above yours. You still need a microphone attached to your PC, but for IFR flights in First Officer mode, the FO handles all comms. You do need to use the spacebar to tell the FO to call for taxi , etc., but other than that the whole flight is automated with regard to ATC communications. No mic is needed unless you want to take over for the FO.

Unfortunately, the FO is not available in VFR mode, but then one is massively diverging from the designed use of VOXATC.

1 minute ago, jabloomf1230 said:

See my post directly above yours. You still need a microphone attached to your PC, but for IFR flights in First Officer mode, the FO handles all comms. You do need to use the spacebar to tell the FO to call for taxi , etc., but other than that the whole flight is automated with regard to ATC communications. No mic is needed unless you want to take over for the FO.

Unfortunately, the FO is not available in VFR mode, but then one is massively diverging from the designed use of VOXATC.

Oops missed that thanks for the info

This would be a better debate if we were all down the pub - less misinterpretation of the nature of posts if we are face to face. Still, there are many decent points raised even in a forum thread where we are "disconnected".

I'm "stuck" with FSX:SE because I cannot as yet find the funds to get a new PC and then invest further in new sims, be they P3D or MSFS.. 

To be fair, once MSFS matures then FSL, PMDG and all the other big players move over then I don't see many sticking with P3D. 

56 minutes ago, rocketlaunch said:

To be fair, once MSFS matures then FSL, PMDG and all the other big players move over then I don't see many sticking with P3D. 

That's contingent on a few factors:

• What the performance is like once a complicated airliner (especially FSL) is added into equation;
• If the MSFS LOD issues can be rectified (bluriness of the ground at airliner flight levels, low detail of autogen in the mid- to far distance) without much of a performance penalty;
• How AI traffic (specifically live AI traffic) interacts with the user aircraft; and
• If the aircraft handle correctly and have full functionality.

I have my fingers crossed for succesful resolution of all of these problems/concerns by Asobo, but right now they appear to be a long way off.

2 hours ago, F737NG said:

That's contingent on a few factors:

• What the performance is like once a complicated airliner (especially FSL) is added into equation;
• If the MSFS LOD issues can be rectified (bluriness of the ground at airliner flight levels, low detail of autogen in the mid- to far distance) without much of a performance penalty;
• How AI traffic (specifically live AI traffic) interacts with the user aircraft; and
• If the aircraft handle correctly and have full functionality.

I have my fingers crossed for succesful resolution of all of these problems/concerns by Asobo, but right now they appear to be a long way off.

What he said and although this is an interesting conversation but I often see things like when MSFS matures and similar ideas but the truth is we just don't know when "when" is. Is it next month or next year? Is "when" going to happen in 5 years? If "when" comes in say 2 years we still don't know just how mature it will be. In the mean time P3D and X-Pain will continue to move forward and "when" that happens will they still be more mature than MSFS. I am afraid it is a bit like "Which came first, the chicken or the egg."😵

4 hours ago, shivers9 said:

What he said and although this is an interesting conversation but I often see things like when MSFS matures and similar ideas but the truth is we just don't know when "when" is. Is it next month or next year? Is "when" going to happen in 5 years? If "when" comes in say 2 years we still don't know just how mature it will be. In the mean time P3D and X-Pain will continue to move forward and "when" that happens will they still be more mature than MSFS. I am afraid it is a bit like "Which came first, the chicken or the egg."😵

Yes, don't count P3D out in the long term.  It's not like FSX vs FS9 where one Microsoft product replaced another - these are competing (in our sphere anyway - P3D's not a consumer product) products from different companies.  What LM has gotten out of essentially the FSX code base is staggering with 64 bit v4 and now DX12 (in which respect it leads MSFS) in v5.  Unlike MS for which MSFS is just another game product, P3D is part of LM's core business of aviation products and services and they're not to let that go.

I could see, for example, LM developing P3D to use streaming scenery as per MSFS using Google Earth as a base instead of Bing.

I see vast potential in MSFS and like it as a clean-sheet design without some of P3D's limitations and oddities (in particular over-dependent on cpu core 1) but at presents *its* limitations and oddities keep me from more than experimenting with it.  Both platforms will be competing to fix these issues.  The winner will be the flight simmer.

I am sticking with P3D because I love my AI and I just can't fly into airports like JFK and not seeing it busy with AI planes.

On 12/2/2020 at 5:11 AM, psolk said:

Ironically choosing a GA plane out of a small airport doesn't really show anything MSFS can't do today.  What "specifically" about that video was there that you couldn't do in MSFS especially with AIG-OCI and A2A coming soon? 

Paul -- he showed a lot more than a GA plane out of a small airport.  For one, he was using the GTN750 touch.  Can't do that in MSFS right now.  Second, he was using VOXATC /voice recognition.  To  the best of my knowledge, can't do that in MSFS right now.

Since the thread is: This is why I'm sticking with P3D. 

My answer remains simple.  I like to do airliner vatsim flights.  The Seattle Center notes on tonights Friday Night Event sum it up. 

"We know you know FS2020 has issues.  Use caution when flying this sim into a high-traffic scenario"

Not saying I'll never move on.  But it's not in the near term.