12 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

Why odd ? This is what a PC sim is and has always been all about, allowing us experiences that we will never have in real life.  This is not a training tool.

I agree with you. But using the term Study implies something msfs is not.

Am having trouble deciphering this thread. Is it a bashing thread where I can extol virtues, or a happy thread where I can complain? 

 

I guess I'm one of the few.  I enjoy MSFS, I have about 500 hours in (I spend way too much time in this sim...) and I know it lets me go anywhere in the world.  I know that a basic license that would let me fly fly in good conditions would run me $10,000.  Instead I have this program that lets me go where I want in anything from a Cub to a 787.  For me, it runs just fine.

25 minutes ago, andyjohnston.net said:

I guess I'm one of the few.  I enjoy MSFS, I have about 500 hours in (I spend way too much time in this sim...) and I know it lets me go anywhere in the world.  I know that a basic license that would let me fly fly in good conditions would run me $10,000.  Instead I have this program that lets me go where I want in anything from a Cub to a 787.  For me, it runs just fine.

Actually mine runs mostly fine now, a bump here and there, but not really bad. My concern is for the people that are having problems after the last update, more than I have seen, and the next update. I don't want my sim to turn into a pile of garbage after the next update, as has happened to many people after the last one. Beta testing would keep that from happening for the most part. 

Edited March 23, 20215 yr by Bobsk8

9 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

A co worker who is an avid gamer and a programmer, told me a month ago that he was surprised that Asobo got the contract to build MSFS 2020. He said that before that they made games that were not very complex. I'm don't know if this is true or not, but that is what he claimed. 

It is true.  Look them up on Wikipedia, then look at their catalog and see how they were received.

1 hour ago, hansb57 said:

I agree with you. But using the term Study implies something msfs is not.

It's pretty hard that a multi - aircraft sim can be study level. Especially when you want to give 3rd  parties the opportunity of developing addons.

I've only used two study level PC-based flight simulators: Elite (but it was nearly 20 years ago I'm not sure about now), and Aerowinx PSX.

Regarding the latter, it simulates a 747-400: many users are actual 747 pilots or retired pilots, and they regularly test PSX in different conditions against the real aircraft or a real simulator. And system-wise it is just the real thing.

Andrea

8 hours ago, Tom Wright said:

I consider myself quite an avid 'simmer', but I'm still seriously considering buying an Xbox Series X so I can play MSFS in the living room, and maybe get my dad into it who doesn't have the time to put together a gaming PC rig but does have a large 4k TV.

...does that make me a bad person?

In all honesty, I’d see how it performs on that platform first, before buying an XBOX TO PLAY IT!

 

If they nerf the LOD and draw distance you might not want to consider it!

7 hours ago, kevinfirth said:

Priceless!  🤣

Not really.  Childishly oversimplified and inaccurate to boot. 

 

Another distillation of the ever-fluctuating "hardcore flight simmer's" paradoxical paradigm:

Week 1:   It needs more <blank> NOW, come on <insert developer> get with it!  If this doesn't improve I'm going back to a "real" simulator like <insert simulator>.

Week 8:   Stop changing things so 'word not allowed' much <insert developer>, you are ruining an otherwise very "promising" simulator and turning it into a slideshow / game *gasp*.

 

Meanwhile the rest of the world either enjoys it or abandons it while the "hardcore" crowd fills forums with posts decrying this or that failing.  TBH I'm fairly certain that ANY extreme voice is filtered out and the issues reported the most as bugs (with the least dramatic of reports) get the majority of the attention.  AVSIM is as always entertaining and informative, in that order.  

10 hours ago, MrFuzzy said:

Our feedback is important, Asobo and MS should listen to us and dedicate resources where is really important.

Just because one is not seeing progress where one would like does not necessarily mean the really important things are being ignored.  It could just mean that, at the moment, one is not nearly as important in the grand scheme as one would like to think one is.   Or that one is impatient.  Either is indicative of one perhaps needing a perspective adjustment.

Edited March 23, 20215 yr by kaosfere

10 hours ago, MrFuzzy said:

I did a simple IFR flight with the A320 from Milan to Frankfurt this morning and found many other "bad" areas south of Frankfurt, where framerate drops to 12 fps for 2-3 minutes with the Manipulators dark red band in the fps counter. Outside of these areas the framerate was 38-40 fps in VR, very smooth despite the clouds coverage. On the ground at Frankfurt I continued to have low framerates (20-22) limited by main thread. I switched to 2D mode (High end settings, render scale 100, 2560x1440) and the framerate stayed the same, limited by main thread. In many other big airports with the A320 I get 40-50 fps in 2D mode and I suspect that the influence of the bad areas extends to their vicinity.

This, along with the A/P bug that forced me to use the DIR workaround twice to resume the flight plan after inexplicable 180° steep turns, ruined my experience considerably.

I believe that the world is disseminated with "bad areas" right now and it's very easy to find them unless you fly only VFR for few miles. 

It's difficult to justify Asobo wasting their time with contrails, FSX liveries and world updates when basic stuff still isn't working 7 months after the release.

MS & Asobo are just following the market in my opinion. MSFS will be released for console for the first time in history. Consoles are made for videogames and are the platform that yields the majority of videogame sales. The videogame market is made by very few simmers who know about navigation, use approach plates and can set an MCDU and many many gamers who can't wait to pilot an airliner from external view and crash it on a photorealistic skyscraper.

Now someone would answer: OK, if FS is not heading the way you'd like, stop using it; having spent 120 $ on it is not a big deal after all.

Sure, it's not a big deal. Even having spent 2,000 $ on an RTX 3090 and other 1,500 $ to upgrade the rest of the PC is not a big deal. None of it is a big deal: the real problem is that, after using FS 2020 for 300+ hours and getting addicted to "next gen" graphics, it is impossible for me to go back to XPlane and Prepar3D.

FS 2020 charmed many of us with its looks just like a beautiful young girl could bewitch us and take us away from our faithful wives, only to give us a false hope of happiness, only to get our money, mock us and eventually leave us heartbroken.

We are not the mass of casual gamers, we are few but we are important if MS wants to keep the word "simulator" in the name of the franchise in the future.

Our feedback is important, Asobo and MS should listen to us and dedicate resources where is really important. We can fly if the mesh is not 1 m accurate and the Pisa tower is not actually leaning, we will never complain about that... but we need a working simulator.

Thanks and sorry for the rant.

 

I agree on most of what you wrote.

And the last segment......we are a few....important....

I don't think so....we are not important because we are only a few...very less simmers compared to the huge gamer market and especially when xbox comes on top. 

I predicted this months ago...here on avsim.....MSFS will do what is important to them....marketing....search users.....masses.....sell.......adjust the next steps....and the loop begins again.

Xbox first.....world updates first....small minor sim updates......all power on xbox development....SDK still lacking.....DX12...maybe much later.....at least far behind xbox.....so...add at least +1 year from now...which makes it almost 2 in total after release....without complex planes...and proper functional systems incl AP.....

2 years is 20% of the total communicated committed time they promised to be at least around here.....

 

2 hours ago, hansb57 said:

I find it odd that users want study planes and the ultimate realism. But they want that for planes that they never could fly IRL.

If you want realism go with the single prop planes and "demand" that they are tweaked to the max.

 

It's worthless to find out why this is what users want.

What counts is the success of PMDG and FSLABS.......MADDOG

Why discussing what's odd and what's not odd?

For me it is the system depth and immersion those planes give me combined with almost Bug free flying (except the somehow struggling t7 release which is updated in between).

Outstanding support on those products too. Something others are really lacking in.....

 

11 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Oh , OK, that is why MSFS 2020 is so bug free and works so well for everyone. By the way, name a PC  game that Asobo produced that is anywhere near the complexity of MSFS 2020. 

 

11 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

A co worker who is an avid gamer and a programmer, told me a month ago that he was surprised that Asobo got the contract to build MSFS 2020. He said that before that they made games that were not very complex. I'm don't know if this is true or not, but that is what he claimed. 

Asobo made games for kids, and were very good at it. Some of the best games for kids, just type Asobo Games in google

The fact they were in the kids market doesnt mean they are not capable, the best computer animators and special effects in the world work for Disney or othe kid oriented fantasy mobies and games

in 2019 they released A Plague Tale, very good animation and gameplay,

check it out

 

Seven pages of social discord?  In one day?  Oh! In 12 hours? How much longer for this to "play" out?

Did anyone fly today?

7 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

.Screw the xbox kiddies, I want my frame back.  If you give people back their frames, the complaining will stop. 

So do you think they should be trying to optimise the sim to run better without using so many system resources? 

Perhaps you’ll be interested in the work being done with Xbox

Yes, it is a simulator with incredible scenery! My next video flying out of Kathmandu to watch the sun rise over the Himalayan Mountains. Viewing and identifying with pin point accuracy - Everest, Lhotse, Nuptse and all the glaciers including the legendary Khumba icefall. It is all there with beautiful views at 30,000' in the TBM.