8 hours ago, neil0311 said:

Probably the same people who’d be ranting if it had been released on 8/24 and had bugs.

”Why don’t they take more time!” would be the rant. I truly think some folks just live to be contrary. 

Do you also agree that not all those who complain do that just to be contrary?

I, for one, was very happy when they said they would delay the new update. To me, it means they have learned something from some recent blunder.

A.

1 hour ago, eslader said:

But I will point out that no one is looking a gift horse in the mouth. I paid $120 for my horse, and all I'm really asking is that Asobo fix the broken horseshoe before they worry about braiding its mane. 

I agree. I paid 120€ for my horse. The fact that I am at a point in my career when 120€ is a negligible amount of money, doesn't make me forget when I was younger and that was not at all the case, or that there are people in less fortunate countries who see 120€ as literally a lot of money. I was happy to pay that amount just for the steam gauges 172, which admittedly is an acceptable model (waiting for AA2A to enter the game anyway) because, being an old nostalgic, I can't bear the G1000.

I really think when announcing new fantastic aircraft it would only be fair to say a few words on how the premium airplanes are being improved. I hope they will be worked on and made as flyable as the 172. 

A.

33 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

Don't forget all the extra airports as well that were included in the extra packages..  that reduces each aircraft to about $3 and each airport to about $2  if that.

Graham

While we're on the subject of value for your money, consider the situation with most serious simmers - which is fair because many of the issues with the aircraft and other things (not talking CTDs of course) are the kind that require a degree of experience with real aircraft/avionics to notice.

Most serious simmers have something like the following:

Mid - high end PC - $1000-$5000+

Quality 4k monitor - $500-$1400

Decent Yoke / Throttle / Joystick / Rudder Pedals $150-$500 ish per item

VR enthusiasts - $500+ for a good headset

"Really serious" simmers build home cockpits - $2000 - $10000+

...

So after all of this, what is the least expensive item that is CRITICAL to making their considerable investment more than a sexy spot to read emails and surf the web; without which your elite-muscle-memory-perfected-greased-crosswind-landing skills would have no outlet?...

MSFS 2020 - $120. (possibly cheaper if you just go gamepass)

IMHO there are a lot of reasons to feedback to MS/Asobo to help them perfect our dream sim, but value for the money spent isnt one of them.

 

Edited August 31, 20214 yr by VFXSimmer

2 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

I read a post of @ChaoticBeauty on the official forum Ii think which says that the big rehab of the weather which I had understood from previous Q&A was for the end of the 2021 is now for the end of 2022.

I looked at my quick summary for that post, and later confirmed the information in the video of the Q&A. More specifically, their roadmap includes a set of improvements to the current weather system until the end of 2021, and a total overhaul in late 2022.

3 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

September will be interesting with two (?) new updates.

The last public Development Roadmap is very outdated, from 17th June. I think it's likely Sim Update 6 has been delayed to October. Past updates that were delayed caused the entire schedule to move back.

42 minutes ago, ADamiani said:

Do you also agree that not all those who complain do that just to be contrary?

I, for one, was very happy when they said they would delay the new update. To me, it means they have learned something from some recent blunder.

A.

This.

No issue with the delay at all. The last time a delay was announced it was done on the due date of release and i was annoyed because it was announced on the due date moreso than the delay itself. Its just a matter of communication (which is why i strongly disagree with Glenn to not to be transparent) I think most reasonable adults in here know that unforeseen circumstances occur in life and plans have to be adjusted accordingly. Immediate  transparency I think goes a long way when that occurs and it doesn't have to be a long explanation either. Just a very brief summary of the issue and a new "projected date" is good enough.

I think some in here think that some of the complainers want this project to fail. Quite the opposite. For some.. its the impatience and the "not knowing" the process or the timeframe as well as the anxiety of wondering if something broken in the sim that is important to you is going to get fixed or swept under the rug.. I bet for the people who genuinely want this sim to succeed an explanation like the one @kaosfere just posted would put many at ease. Im sure Matt does not have Asobo PR in his job description but my hats off to you for your informative and reassuring posts during the past SU5 Release.

Everyone has character flaws. I sometimes come off a bit blunt.. Ill own that and have tried to refrain from immediate comment or straight out avoid the people who push my buttons.. Doesn't make me an unreasonable person when logic is presented. Especially when presented without the snark.

Cheers and here's hoping for a "mostly" bug free World Update when it gets released.

Edited August 31, 20214 yr by Maxis

I’m confused as to why some people ask why they don’t talk about fixing bugs or polishing the default planes instead of marketing new stuff. They talk about fixes for default stuff every world and sim update, so we’re talking pretty much every month, and they have a permanently active bug and wish list that all can vote on and see exactly where their concerns / hopes lie. 

Regarding premium aircraft, I couldn’t give a toss how much each aircraft works out, and frankly that’s irrelevant anyway. The fact is any product included in the SIM should work to a basic level - that includes the ability to fly straight and level, steer on the ground and have a good standard of functionality.

Premium deluxe it’s called

2 minutes ago, hanhamreds said:

Regarding premium aircraft, I couldn’t give a toss how much each aircraft works out, and frankly that’s irrelevant anyway. The fact is any product included in the SIM should work to a basic level - that includes the ability to fly straight and level, steer on the ground and have a good standard of functionality.

Premium deluxe it’s called

They do.

4 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Thanks Matt. I think for default planes, MSFS should be held to the standard of default planes in other consumer market sims - that is, how does MSFS default planes compare to FSX, X-Plane, and P3D default planes.  If MSFS default planes are meeting the quality of other default planes in other sims, then MSFS default planes have met its goals.

I think that this is precisely where at least one problem exists. Whilst I acknowledge that the default aircraft are way above the standards set by previous platforms, I see the problem as one of "this is all we have (at the moment) I also acknowledge that none of the default aircraft in any platform has ever satisfied the "complex and study level" desire or requirement some of us constantly display here on this forum.  I further acknowledge the recent influx of 3PD aircraft like PMDG and to a lesser extent Aerosoft and even the ORBX Optica. 

Constant references to the great quality of 3PD aircraft available in other platforms only seems to exaggerate the frustration of the simmers who really do want better quality aircraft for MSFS and are largely YET to get them.  Apart from the bugs and glitches which are constantly mentioned, I believe, and have always appreciated, that the basic MSFS platform is far and away the best of the lot and mainly because of the graphics.   

I guess what I am trying to allude to here, is that these complex aircraft are coming ... they may be slow to appear, but from all accounts, they are coming. This automatically means that for those guys seeking perfection simply have to be a little more patient.

Having said that, the bugs and glitches really do have to be fixed and I believe on a priority basis, but, I am very much more enlightened in light of this topic. As a result, I am convinced fixes will come too and again patience is required.

At least for those of us locked down or locked in, by this current incredible pandemic, we have something to really appreciate for all its faults and all of its greatness. I will even go so far as to suggest that some of our greatest complaint generators are ignoring somewhat the needs of our families whilst they have a fly on this much maligned platform. LOL

Regards

Tony 

 

2 hours ago, VFXSimmer said:

...

So after all of this, what is the least expensive item that is CRITICAL to making their considerable investment more than a sexy spot to read emails and surf the web; without which your elite-muscle-memory-perfected-greased-crosswind-landing skills would have no outlet?...

MSFS 2020 - $120. (possibly cheaper if you just go gamepass)

You know, I've never really thought about it this way, but you're totally right.

PC for me, probably $3000 with everything in the case (which is way overkill just for simming, I don't need 12TB of disk just for that, frex, but that's one of the major use cases.)

Two monitors, about $2000 total.

Flight controls, something a bit under a grand.  Call it $1000 to cover my TrackIR, StreamDecks, and other random bits.

That's $6000 in hardware, all of it to drive a $120 (I bought premium) sim.

In terms of relative value that's bonkers, compared to someone who's playing on an XBox.  The sim itself costs pennies.   Thanks for that perspective 😄

 

2 hours ago, Maxis said:

Everyone has character flaws. I sometimes come off a bit blunt.. Ill own that and have tried to refrain from immediate comment or straight out avoid the people who push my buttons.. Doesn't make me an unreasonable person when logic is presented. Especially when presented without the snark.

I hear you mate, same here.   Problem for me is "snark" is one of my default modes when I get tweaked.   What can I say?  I'm human and flawed, but I work on it.  🙂   (And I'm a lot more mellow and rational than I was 20 years ago, so something must be working. 😄 )

Edited September 1, 20214 yr by kaosfere

16 minutes ago, kaosfere said:

In terms of relative value that's bonkers, compared to someone who's playing on an XBox.  The sim itself costs pennies.   Thanks for that perspective 😄

Its might also be revealing for us to think about just exactly how much money we have spent over time in other sims to get something approximating the look and features of MSFS.....

22 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Its might also be revealing for us to think about just exactly how much money we have spent over time in other sims to get something approximating the look and features of MSFS.....

Not only that, but the time and pain it took to constantly make sure the scenery layering was correct.  It seemed like every time we added a scenery it through the whole thing out of whack.  Even when it was correct, you'd still show up at a airport that was missing or below the terrain...lol...or no autogen...or something else.

Everytime...*bleeped* at the drive thru. 😁

Edited September 1, 20214 yr by Jeff Nielsen

1 hour ago, kaosfere said:

Problem for me is "snark" is one of my default modes when I get tweaked

Same although I think I'm prone more to sneering condescension, which may ironically, self-referentially, just be a paraphrase of the much simpler "snark".

I think some people are confusing premium deluxe aircrafts as being more premium and in-depth aircrafts rather than what they actually are, which are just extra default aircrafts (in addition to extra hand-crafted airports). Microsoft/Asobo never said premium deluxe aircrafts would be more detailed system-wise than default aircrafts if I remember correctly (heck, some of them are even pretty simple and hands-on-stick aircrafts like the DA40 TDI). And as @Moria15 said, if we count the airports too then the PD aircrafts would be around $3 each which is pretty cheap and shouldn't really be taken as premium aircrafts in any way. That was my expectation anyway so I am pretty happy with what we got.

In other words, you paid double for more planes (and more airports), not more detailed planes.

Edited September 1, 20214 yr by Honnli

21 minutes ago, Honnli said:

I think some people are confusing premium deluxe aircrafts as being more premium and in-depth aircrafts rather than what they actually are, which are just extra default aircrafts (in addition to extra hand-crafted airports). Microsoft/Asobo never said premium deluxe aircrafts would be more detailed system-wise than default aircrafts if I remember correctly (heck, some of them are even pretty simple and hands-on-stick aircrafts like the DA40 TDI). And as @Moria15 said, if we count the airports too then the PD aircrafts would be around $3 each which is pretty cheap and shouldn't really be taken as premium aircrafts in any way. That was my expectation anyway so I am pretty happy with what we got.

In other words, you paid double for more planes (and more airports), not more detailed planes.

Jorg later on did say they wanted to go much further down the rabbit hole when it came to the avionics for all the planes.  As for systems, who knows, but it all kind of ties in together with most planes nowadays.  All in all though, the aircraft out of the box are still 10X better then what we had before, and they are actively improving them as we speak.  We know they're also working to improve the flight dynamics and other things according to the Q&As.  Either way, it's a win-win for us eventually.