2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Oh, that's interesting. Do you have a source for this?  Or perhaps Drzewiecki Design could verify this. 

Did you follow and read the link?  From two different comment direct from their web site support area as linked in the very first message in this topic.  It would certainly seem that Martin Starski is a member of their team.  Not certain about Stainislaw.

Quote

Martin Starski:  Hi, to be very honest it's hard to say - at the moment P3D represents ca. 5% of our users. Maybe if we release the EETN scenery for MSFS, we will be possible to update P3D scenery, but nothing can be promised.

 

Stainislaw:   P3D customers currently make about 4% of the total customer base which does not seem promising for any P3D releases/updates in the near future.
 

 

 

1 minute ago, fppilot said:

Not certain about Stainislaw.

Stanislaw's surname is Drzewiecki. 😉

Navdata's recent survey may provide a more interesting result on sim usage.

Edited December 11, 20214 yr by wardp

I'm super jealous of the guys who love MSFS.  for real.  I want to feel that way also.  But in reality I find myself in between sims and not satisfied with the current state of offerings in p3d or msfs.  Or xplane for that matter.  My fingers are crossed that the remaining SDK issues are fixed and allow us to see everything we have in p3d, but better. 

regardless, we all see the writing on the wall.  

47 minutes ago, wardp said:

Navdata's recent survey may provide a more interesting result on sim usage.

and the average age of ms2020 users.

37 minutes ago, micstatic said:

I'm super jealous of the guys who love MSFS.  for real.  I want to feel that way also.  But in reality I find myself in between sims and not satisfied with the current state of offerings in p3d or msfs.  Or xplane for that matter.  My fingers are crossed that the remaining SDK issues are fixed and allow us to see everything we have in p3d, but better. 

thing i find with xp11 is for every one step you do with it,  to do the same with p3d you need to do 3,

 

1 hour ago, psolk said:

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.  AIG was at one point 50,000 new installs per day with MSFS whereas TOTAL P3D was 15,000 or 1/3 total of what MSFS was doing per day.

Ah right, misinterpretation on my part, apologies

Most probably not gonna happen, but what I'd like to see regarding this topic is a chart of add-on sales, month for month, for the years leading up to the “big announcement“, and continuing up to this day. Ideally including a new release for all sims.

Having been a part of the community for a very, very long time and having worked one-on-one with countless new flight simmers, founded and managing private high-end flight sim groups, assisted with VAs, and working on the commerical side of things, I can tell you this is all much to do about nothing.

New sims come in and eventually the majority of the community switch to them. And with the course set, the commerical and freeware developers follow.

Now I still use P3Dv4/v5 (and I bet few people have the number of addons for those platforms that I do), and while I know and like the P3D platform I also have MSFS and with some high-end addons like the Aerosoft CRJ and those coming shortly (for instance PMDG and the aircraft NOBODY disputes as one of the two finest aircraft EVER developed for flight sim... the Leonardo Maddog MD-82 which I will soon be testing for MSFS), my move to MSFS is all but assurded.  One thing I am waiting for is a good MSFS weather engine and frankly I'm lost when it comes to understanding what's really been going on with that. 

Anyway, it's just what it is.

 

To everyone in the community, to all my many friends, and especially those new to flight sim.... My best and most sincere wishes for a blessed holiday season to you and your families.

 

1 hour ago, wardp said:

Navdata's recent survey may provide a more interesting result on sim usage.

12 minutes ago, fluffyflops said:

and the average age of ms2020 users.

The Navigraph survey tends to produce results for an older demographic (2/5ths under 40yo, 3/5ths over 40) who would be expected to buy add-ons and subscriptions in greater numbers due to higher disposable income (in theory).

With P3D being is seen as expensive due to all the payware required to 'pretty it up', and XP and MSFS seen as having lower barriers to enjoy them fully, I'm not sure if the survey really captures the correct data of the flight sim market as a whole.
(2020 results had a relatively even split, with 55% of respondents using P3D v4 or v5, 60% using XP11 and just over 60% using MSFS in some form or other).
 

1 hour ago, psolk said:

AIG was at one point 50,000 new installs per day with MSFS whereas TOTAL P3D was 15,000 or 1/3 total of what MSFS was doing per day.  It's that great of a market delta

Does this not fall under the pent up demand theory? Other than the 'Simple AI' cash grab payware product, there was nothing else available in order to have proper looking AI in MSFS.
In P3D, there are at least 2 payware products and there have been attempts at freeware alternatives all competing against AIG.

While there are currently plenty of negatives from its relatively sudden and unfinished arrival, MSFS has created a new level of interest into our hobby. That may be a good thing, as hopefully it will force LM to respond and be more ambitious in their updates.

Additionally, we *may* also see future products ported from MSFS to P3D at a higher standard. We *may* also see those developers who are still interested in P3D having the space to operate - where previously there had been competition from bigger developers who had been resting on the laurels and releasing modest updates, rather than anything new and bold.

We'll see...
 

6 minutes ago, F737NG said:

Additionally, we *may* also see future products ported from MSFS to P3D at a higher standard. 
 

Seeing what Flightbeam, Flytampa and MK Studios are doing this may be the reasonable expectation going forward. Do the PBR and other details in MSFS and scale down and release for P3D. MSFS sales pay for R&D and they manage to keep the P3D clients happy. 

In my opinion MSFS is marketed more as a game than a simulator.  I believe that the majority of the current user base doesn't really care about complex airliners and proper real-time weather injection, in much the same way as Call of Duty or Battlefield players could care less about proper firearm realism and mechanics.  They jump into the landing challenges and sight seeing tours and the default aircraft are perfectly suited for this task.  And just like every other game, eventually people will get bored and move onto something else.  Then all that will be left will be the simmers that will demand a more complex sim experience.  And for MSFS' sake, hopefully by the time this happens complex airliners and other systems will be usable and stable.  If not, the old standbys (P3D and XP) will come back to the forefront.  And when they do so will the developers.

57 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

high-end addons like the Aerosoft CRJ

I genuinely laughed out loud. 
 

thanks for that! 

3 hours ago, micstatic said:

I'm super jealous of the guys who love MSFS.  for real.  I want to feel that way also.  But in reality I find myself in between sims and not satisfied with the current state of offerings in p3d or msfs.  Or xplane for that matter.  My fingers are crossed that the remaining SDK issues are fixed and allow us to see everything we have in p3d, but better. 

Same here. I'm on P3D because at the end of the day, I value a complex, realistic airliner simulation over scenery and since MSFS doesn't offer the complex aircraft yet, I'm sticking with P3D for the time being. However, that doesn't mean I don't value scenery at all. I'm honestly tired of P3D's bland looking world and drool every time I see an MSFS shot or video.

That's why I'm anxious for the complex airliners to come to MSFS, because then I'll get the complex simulation and the amazing world depiction. So when I'm seeing people discuss simulation vs. scenery, all I can think of is "why not both?".

That said, where I see the chance of MSFS to be established as a 'true simulation' even without complex aircraft is the weather. It's admittedly a bit of a mess since the latest update, but if Asobo pulls off what they are planning with regards to weather, that will be the best simulation of weather we've ever seen in flight simming and undoubtedly much more than just eye-candy given how integral weather is to flying.