Some one, can't find it now but this is the gist of what's happening, seems to think that I and everyone else should be grateful to Asobo? I am extremely pleased with the software I paid for but I am not "grateful".  Seems to me that Asobo should be grateful for me buying it! Ditto every addon developer that charges money.

Edited June 16, 20232 yr by jarmstro

51 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Seems to me that Asobo should be grateful for me buying it! Ditto every addon developer that charges money.

Well, they likely are. Gratefulness can go both ways 🙂

1 hour ago, jarmstro said:

Some one, can't find it now but this is the gist of what's happening, seems to think that I and everyone else should be grateful to Asobo? I am extremely pleased with the software I paid for but I am not "grateful".  Seems to me that Asobo should be grateful for me buying it! Ditto every addon developer that charges money.

Agree, that's really a strange attitude. The same people usually also will tell you one post later: "Microsoft/Asobo is a business, they have to eat, too, and that's why they have to re-charge everybody for 2024".
I mean either it's "It's a business, they try to maximize profits, we try to purchase stuff that's worth the price" OR it's "We are all passionate in our hobbies, devs and simmers, so let's just be grateful we made MSFS this big all together".
 

See, I don't mind paying 100€ again, I spend more on airports in a single month. But I expect these airports to be as good as possible. Therefore I expect MSFS 2024 to be a huge improvement to core issue. Don't let them get away again with "yeah, working on clouds / ground physics / AI / ATC is 'planned'" and 4 years later it's MSFS 2028 and core issues are still not fixed, things that P3D or XPL mostly have working fine for years / decades.. We have to have a clear stand as a community that charging us again means our expectations are equally high. Exalting them for nothing (because there is "nothing" yet in terms of those issues, all we have is a video of missions and a tornado) is counter-productive.

On 6/14/2023 at 2:01 AM, Stoopy said:

Oh please. Get over yourself.  I've been simming since Sublogic Flight Sim in 1982, so not a newcomer myself, and have no illusions... it's an entertainment title.  Says so right on the cover.  A GAME.  Don't let it break your heart.

Unless you're some skinflint broke pilot that can't afford FAA-approved actual training materials and decided to cut corners on training and try your luck with an entertainment title, then chances are you started out by picking it up and playing it just like the casuals you are belittling.  

This drama belongs in one of those M. Night Shamalyan movie plot twists where the audience finds out at the end that (gasp!!!!!)... it was a game ALL ALONG!!  😁

I have my PPL.

Real commercial airline pilots use it to simulate.

And aviation needs like myself use it to simulate.

 

What are you using the SIMULATOR for then , if not to replicate Real world operations and practicing vfr flights to keep ones knowledge fast.

 

People like you are beyond deluded and a bane to the overall community. Couldn't care less when you started...some of us pay a lot of money for our desktop sim, buying peripherals, addon scenery and addon l, study level aircraft to actually practice REAL WORLD AVIATION. What on earth are YOU using it for Mr.Offended?

This video just aged like milk

On 6/14/2023 at 8:24 PM, Stearmandriver said:

I... This is sarcasm / trolling, right?

Nope. I stand firmly by what I said. But do elaborate on your reaction because as far as I was aware, the point of making a simulator platform, with third party developers recapturing real life, accurate renditions of scenery, aircraft and other real life elements of aviation, was intended to be used to simulate Real life. 

 

Help me to see what you see which I clearly don't. Lol. I get we can buy at game shops and this iteration is friendlier to casual players but...if the core market isn't for serious aviation needs who buy addons to enhance virtual reality...what are you guys using it for and what level of fidelity are the aircraft you are purchasing? I'm curious. 

 

 

Respect, what is needed here is respect... in these forums sometimes I see people trying to impose their point of view without understanding that everyone has the right to see things differently... if someone uses the simulator for entertainment and to explore the planet from the sky without being interested in the airplanes being 100% true to reality, what's the problem?... if someone invests thousands of dollars to make their experience with the simulator as realistic as possible, who does it affect?... everyone has the right to use the simulator as they want, and that doesn't give us the right to ridicule or belittle one another... I am grateful to MS/Asobo because they have brought a lot of life to our hobby and it's amazing how it has developed over these past 3 years... I respect people who expect a $60 simulator to replicate with complete fidelity the world, the weather, and the systems of a millions-dollars aircrafts… honestly I do not expect that from a $60 software, however, everyone has the right to have their own expectations and not be disrespected for that

Edited June 24, 20232 yr by dmvega81

1 hour ago, Coolieboy said:

Nope. I stand firmly by what I said. But do elaborate on your reaction because as far as I was aware, the point of making a simulator platform, with third party developers recapturing real life, accurate renditions of scenery, aircraft and other real life elements of aviation, was intended to be used to simulate Real life. 

 

Help me to see what you see which I clearly don't. Lol. I get we can buy at game shops and this iteration is friendlier to casual players but...if the core market isn't for serious aviation needs who buy addons to enhance virtual reality...what are you guys using it for and what level of fidelity are the aircraft you are purchasing? I'm curious. 

 

 

Well, what you appear not to see (though I can't understand how this is possible) is that this program (and every other desktop flight simulator in existence) IS a game; as in, software used for entertainment purposes.  

Can it be used in some cases to help people learn about the procedures involved in flying?  Yes.  Is this the same as actually training to fly an airplane?  Of course not; the two things aren't even related.

I've used MSFS and its predecessors to operate aircraft I fly or have previously flown in real life.  I like hand flying AIII approaches in the PMDG 737 as one easy example.  Why?  Because it's fun.  Could doing this help someone who didn't fly 737s learn about how it is done?  Sure.  Does this mean they'd in any way be prepared to do it themselves?  Oh my no.  Do I delude myself into thinking I'm practicing for my next real world approach, or my next CQ event?  Of course not.  Because this is a sub $100 game running on a home computer, not a multi million dollar training device.

Does flying an ILS on Vatsim in a 172 help someone learn about how that works in real life?  Of course.  Does it really help with maintaining any instrument currency?  I would say no more so than chair flying; it's just more FUN than that.

We use this software because it's FUN.  And that's ok.  That's good in fact!  Fun is good!  For some, fun is using the software to learn ABOUT real world operations (which is different than actually LEARNING them).  For others, fun may be the cliched "inverted under the bridge" stuff.  My point is that there's not really a difference... Because we're all having FUN.  No one is actually conducting training here.

It's somewhat irrational to get angry at someone for using the software to have fun in a different way than you do.

 

26 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

Well, what you appear not to see (though I can't understand how this is possible) is that this program (and every other desktop flight simulator in existence) IS a game; as in, software used for entertainment purposes.  

Can it be used in some cases to help people learn about the procedures involved in flying?  Yes.  Is this the same as actually training to fly an airplane?  Of course not; the two things aren't even related.

I've used MSFS and its predecessors to operate aircraft I fly or have previously flown in real life.  I like hand flying AIII approaches in the PMDG 737 as one easy example.  Why?  Because it's fun.  Could doing this help someone who didn't fly 737s learn about how it is done?  Sure.  Does this mean they'd in any way be prepared to do it themselves?  Oh my no.  Do I delude myself into thinking I'm practicing for my next real world approach, or my next CQ event?  Of course not.  Because this is a sub $100 game running on a home computer, not a multi million dollar training device.

Does flying an ILS on Vatsim in a 172 help someone learn about how that works in real life?  Of course.  Does it really help with maintaining any instrument currency?  I would say no more so than chair flying; it's just more FUN than that.

We use this software because it's FUN.  And that's ok.  That's good in fact!  Fun is good!  For some, fun is using the software to learn ABOUT real world operations (which is different than actually LEARNING them).  For others, fun may be the cliched "inverted under the bridge" stuff.  My point is that there's not really a difference... Because we're all having FUN.  No one is actually conducting training here.

It's somewhat irrational to get angry at someone for using the software to have fun in a different way than you do.

 

Brother, if I ran this site, I’d have this post as a sticky that had to be agreed to in order to post here.

On 6/14/2023 at 7:55 AM, MarcG said:

One thing that constantly strikes me is the lack of bringing other teams in, like Working Title, to help Asobo with this mammoth project. It's been quite clear from the very beginning that they've struggled in many areas, yet WT are the only ones to be given a specific area to focus and improve.

I don’t think this is correct really, FS academy are doing missions/lessons

Perfect flight are doing bush trips

we've got orbx doing POIs and WU airports same with GAYA etc

inibuilds etc some base aircraft 

I think Asobo been pretty good at getting in other third parties involved. 

24 minutes ago, g-liner said:

I don’t think this is correct really, FS academy are doing missions/lessons

Perfect flight are doing bush trips

we've got orbx doing POIs and WU airports same with GAYA etc

inibuilds etc some base aircraft 

I think Asobo been pretty good at getting in other third parties involved. 

Yes you are correct with those, I was more referring to the ATC/AI/VR etc side of things, the areas they've struggled with primarily (albeit looks like better Live Traffic with the new sim which is welcome).

I get why Asobo/Microsoft are doing this however I think it could have been handled a bit differently. Granted, no matter what way they choose to do it some will be unhappy. Had they done like they do in MMO's and made MSFS 2024 an expansion that might have been viewed a bit better. 

2 hours ago, Coolieboy said:

I have my PPL.

Real commercial airline pilots use it to simulate.

And aviation needs like myself use it to simulate.

 

What are you using the SIMULATOR for then , if not to replicate Real world operations and practicing vfr flights to keep ones knowledge fast.

 

People like you are beyond deluded and a bane to the overall community. Couldn't care less when you started...some of us pay a lot of money for our desktop sim, buying peripherals, addon scenery and addon l, study level aircraft to actually practice REAL WORLD AVIATION. What on earth are YOU using it for Mr.Offended?

Why are people upset by describing it as a game. Isn’t fs2020 supposed to be fun? That’s why I play it anyway.

If I’m doing flight training for my job I’m in a real aircraft or in a real sim not fs2020. Sure FS2020 is great and I want more realism in every aspect  but it’s obviously not good enough to use for actual training for my job as an airline pilot. 

I think the issue is that some simmers like you think it’s incredibly realistic and are massively invested in your hobby and imagine because you’re flying a PMDG 73 or whatever you’re basically doing what real pilots do. You’re not, you’re playing a game and that’s why you get upset when you have to face the reality of the situation. 

I can use fs2020 for some aspects of my job like scan flows and practicing certain approaches or procedures etc but only because I fully understand the limitations of the sim (because I actually fly the same aircraft and fly the approaches I’m practicing IRL) and know where it’s realistic and where it’s not. 
 

FS2020 has obviously succeeded as it’s become more accessible to a wider range of players. Devs know they’ll get far more sales from these new simmers and reach if marketplace etc than just relying on the older classic flightsim demographic. 
 

What MS/asobo have done by opening the sim up to a wider group through game pass and making the game fantastic on console has been a huge success. 
 

instead of trying to gatekeep your hobby (it’s not just your hobby) , why not enjoy the huge amounts of new content and opportunities that this success has created for us ALL to enjoy. 
 

Playing flightsim is partly how I got into my flying career as a young boy, I’m really pleased to see the recent shake up in the community and all the new players enjoying it and hopefully getting into aviation as a career also. 

 

15 minutes ago, MarcG said:

Yes you are correct with those, I was more referring to the ATC/AI/VR etc side of things, the areas they've struggled with primarily (albeit looks like better Live Traffic with the new sim which is welcome).

Yeah and I wonder if the new live marine traffic and air traffic and liveries in FS2024 will be handled by third parties also? 

Apologies if that’s what you meant in the first place though!

Either way the new sim looks awesome and I can’t wait to check it out.