MSFS 2024 …. Betrayal ?

[Stoopy]

16 hours ago, The Flight Level said:

The famous 180 turn on an AVSim topic strikes again!

Game vs Entertainment vs Simulator

All 3 being abstracted from reality, which in essence just makes them different flavors of fantasy, eh?

[DAD]

6 hours ago, MattNischan said:

without the more casual sim crowd, I can guarantee you this whole crazy endeavor is not even vaguely financially feasible.

Well said. Thanks to put all this into context

[RustyFlyer]

Talk about drama queen lol. I suspect that the video originator also feels that it's not possible for people to walk and to chew gum at the same time. Here's a novel thought: Why not hold off condemnation of a product (and of the product's "manufacturer") until after production of the product has concluded and until the actual distribution of the actual, full product has, at least, begun?

I suspect that MS/Asobo will endeavor to accomplish both- to continue the "aviation simulation" aspect of MSFS while adding new dimensions to the experience. The "less is more" approach to things is not always representative; sometimes "more" is indeed more. I'll hold off judgement until the new release is issued.

Finally and personally, I welcome the addition of different RP scenarios into the MSFS "environment".

[Stearmandriver]

18 hours ago, Coolieboy said:

Pardon you but, it is NOT intended to be a "game". To fund for the huge tech advances, yes...they market to a wider audience NOW in this iteration but clearly you are a newcomer and I'll have you know that without the core customers who are into nothing more than using MSFS, P3D/FSX/X-Plane (all SIMULATORS to SIMULATE/TRAIN) both IFR and VFR alike, there would not BE a "MSFS" for you to attempt to reclassify as a pickup and play "game". 

 

 

Get it right, this isn't a game for anyone aside for casual, Xbox players who are more than happy to consume unrealistic addons and renditions of aircraft both real and fake.

I... This is sarcasm / trolling, right?

[Krakin]

6 hours ago, MarcG said:

but ATC, & AI are glacial,

You do know that those two are a couple of the most difficult things to properly program for? Especially to the level we want them to get to. The other day I read Asobo's job listing for an ATC expert and the requirements left me wondering if such a person even exists lol. MSFS has raised expectations across the board so getting these things right is going to take time.

[Alpine Scenery]

Doesn't sound like a difficult thing to fix for the AIR part of the ATC as far as elevations and what not (simple).
IMO, the difficulty pales in comparison to some of the things they've already accomplished.

Throw something together and let the community critique and then make corrections, no ATC expert even needed.

You are talking about some proximity coordinate checks and an elevation map, not that difficult 😛
There is not even any graphics work or game engine coding, so relatively basic.

Now enhancing the aerial imagery automatically with AI where it looks wrong, that is difficult.
 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Alpine Scenery

[MarcG]

29 minutes ago, Krakin said:

You do know that those two are a couple of the most difficult things to properly program for? Especially to the level we want them to get to. The other day I read Asobo's job listing for an ATC expert and the requirements left me wondering if such a person even exists lol. MSFS has raised expectations across the board so getting these things right is going to take time.

They've been advertising that role for ages and yes I do know how hard they could be to code, but it's not impossible and both have been very slow progress.

[KL Oo]

 

7 hours ago, MattNischan said:

The truth is, Asobo gets super unfairly painted as focused on only on more of the entertainment side of simulation and less on the deep aspects, and I just can't agree. I think they've done a stellar job doing both, and we should honestly be really happy about that, because without the more casual sim crowd, I can guarantee you this whole crazy endeavor is not even vaguely financially feasible.

Do I very occasionally have to dodge a taxiway sign or a tree? I mean, sure. Is that really a "betrayal"? Goodness, I hope not.

Well said Matt, a good voice of reason and logic from somebody who actually has a seat on the inside. Betrayal is a ridiculous word to describe Asobo and MSFS. 

[MattNischan]

7 hours ago, AnkH said:

because they would have taken WAAAY less effort to do so

Such as?

[AnkH]

9 hours ago, MattNischan said:

Such as?

Such as the totally bugged snow coverage due to bad data being used by meteoblue? Simply get the correct data and thats it. No idea, why this could in any case take longer or be more complicated than a total overhaul of the ground friction system. 

Such as adding more cloud variation. Some addon devs achieved that in no time, again way less work compared to the Computational Fluid Dynamics they implemented for several planes. 

[Rocky_53]

On 6/12/2023 at 5:23 PM, Bert Pieke said:

This is actually a separate concern from those mentioned before... most dealt with having to upgrade and what that might mean.  This one is dealing with "sim vs game".. and deep inside me, I do share the concern.

Vehicles driving on the taxi ways, trees blocking the approach path, misplaced PAPI lights, morphing terrain tiles etc  do indeed interfere with the authentic cockpit experience.. and seeing MS/Asobo spending their energy on adding Mission content, instead of cleaning up the basics rubs me the wrong way also.. 😟

Absolutely Bert. I have only this minute posted on another thread, exactly the same concerns.

[Rocky_53]

16 hours ago, RustyFlyer said:

Why not hold off condemnation of a product (and of the product's "manufacturer") until after production of the product has concluded and until the actual distribution of the actual, full product has, at least, begun?

I hear what you're saying, but any concerns, certainly from where I sit, are not specifically about 2024, but about the impact it will have on 2020 by Asobo concentrating on a new release as opposed to sorting out all the issues that still have not been resolved in 2020.

[lwt1971]

21 minutes ago, Rockliffe said:

I hear what you're saying, but any concerns, certainly from where I sit, are not specifically about 2024, but about the impact it will have on 2020 by Asobo concentrating on a new release as opposed to sorting out all the issues that still have not been resolved in 2020.

Well, try to think of it like this: MSFS keeps improving and adding new functionality and content as well as fixes regularly and every 1-2 months at least (as seen in the SUs, AAUs, WUs, CUs so far, as well as the inclusion of free high fidelity birds like the iniBuilds A310, etc)... and every 4+ years, you pay $60-$120 for all this depending on whatever edition of the base sim you want/have, and add-ons compatibility is maintained... you also get to stay on the previous base sim if you want (thought it's not clear yet for how long they'll support that after a new base sim releases)... is this scenario that bad? How do you know that they are *only* concentrating on new features?

In all the previous sims was there ever an example of a specific version that got all the needed fixes, or did folks have to move up to a new version to get some of those fixes along with improvements?

In any case, as per https://flightsimexpo.com/schedule MSFS is scheduled for 5:00-5:20pm CDT in the "Product Announcements Seminars" section of FSExpo. We'll surely get more details then.
 

Edited June 15, 2023 by lwt1971

[MarcG]

34 minutes ago, Rockliffe said:

I hear what you're saying, but any concerns, certainly from where I sit, are not specifically about 2024, but about the impact it will have on 2020 by Asobo concentrating on a new release as opposed to sorting out all the issues that still have not been resolved in 2020.

That's where I'm a bit concerned, the product I bought in 2020 has of course evolved in many ways of which I am eternally thankful. But there has been regressions in both bugs and features, will those get "fixed" for this Sim? Or will they only be sorted in the new Sim? If the latter, is it ok to spend more money to purchase a new title whereby the older title should've got those fixes in the first place? (No I'm not gonna list them, the bug reports are there for all to see on the official forum!)

That's where the lack of communication regarding exactly what "support" MSFS2020 gets in the future is troubling, fine it's ok to continually wait for information but until then the lack of communication just leads to constant guesswork and further questions & very valid concerns.

For the record I will be buying the new sim, but I'd still like to see the current Sim have those regressions fixed before they call time on it....whenever that may be.

Edited June 15, 2023 by MarcG

[avhpilot]

From the trailer I do not see what would be so different to fs2020. Moving trees, yes. more animations, yes, but it still looks roughly the same sim to me, same saturated colors, same clouds but more 'playmobil' toys on the ground. 

isn't it safe to assume that all fs2020 addons from asobo can be upgraded for free in the new marketplace and it'll be fairly easy to modify 3rd party addons at a discount price or for free?

Or perhaps everything still works in the 'new' sim, similar to what happens with X-plane upgrades.

Or are we about to see long emails from Mr R from PMDG saying that development for their 777 for FS2020 will be canceled and put back in the fridge for FS2024 only but only until they have the upgrades for DC6 and 737 done .........in 2025 ?

I wonder. 

Perhaps the age of complex add-ons that need to ripe like fine wine in their development is over and cannot keep up with today's pace anymore...

Edited June 15, 2023 by avhpilot