16 minutes ago, 737_800 said:

I would be ashamend in the shoes of PMDG considering taking a upgrade fee since they just haven't used the "right" (modern) technology in the first place as other devs did. Why should the customer pay for that?

What exactly is the "modern" technology? javascript, one of the worst languages to program with?

If you were a programmer in the "modern" world, you'd hate javascript with a passion, a rebel untyped and disorganized language which fortunately evolved enough into Typescript and can now be used without major headaches, unlike C++ which is a dream of a language to code on.

Developing for MSFS in javascript is a pain in the neck.

On this forum, it doesn't take long for the PMDG bashing to get going. 

3 minutes ago, Nuno Pinto said:

What exactly is the "modern" technology? javascript, one of the worst languages to program with?

If you were a programmer in the "modern" world, you'd hate javascript with a passion, a rebel untyped and disorganized language which fortunately evolved enough into Typescript and can now be used without major headaches, unlike C++ which is a dream of a language to code on.

Developing for MSFS in javascript is a pain in the neck.

That modern technology other developers use. Period.

 

@Bobsk8: It's not meant to bashing on myside, but I just want the old PMDG back when I got exited about their products. That's not the case anymore. I don't wish them any bad, just to catch up and initiating right dicisions!

 

Edited December 5, 20241 yr by 737_800

2 minutes ago, 737_800 said:

That modern technology other developers use. Period.

Yeah, you just have no idea. But that's ok, just be sure that PMDG are doing the right thing, the problem in this case is Asobo/Microsoft and their schedules.

18 minutes ago, 737_800 said:

I would be ashamend in the shoes of PMDG considering taking an upgrade fee since they just haven't used the "right" (modern) technology in the first place as other devs did. Why should the customer pay for that?

This is an interesting argument.  On the one hand, the amount of work a developer puts into a new product is not necessarily indicative of what they should charge for that new product.  For example, if Fenix put in twice the amount of work to develop their A320 as the PMDG 737, we don’t believe the cost should be double, do we?

But on the other hand, when it comes to charging for a new simulator, we suddenly care about the amount of work involved.  Not saying you are saying this, but I’ve heard variations of this before.  From a loyalty perspective it makes sense to charge a minimal or zero upgrade fee.  But they could also charge full price since we didn’t buy their product for a different version of the simulator.

19 minutes ago, 737_800 said:

That modern technology other developers use. Period.

As was pointed out in the Fenix update thread, even Fenix explained what the issue is with the lack of debug tools PMDG has available to them...  

Even the other developers have said they would be in the same spot as PMDG had they been reliant upon MS/Asobo's troubleshooting tools which were not in the original 2024 release or in the 1.1 patch so hopefully when PMDG has the tools it will be a quick compatibility only release as other developers have done.  

 

Edited December 5, 20241 yr by psolk

I too have purchased just about every PMDG product over the last 15 years, and they are obviously amongst the best products available. Unfortunately, they have a history of not doing themselves any favors from a customer service and communication perspective. I think that's generally what is most behind the so-called "bashing." I will continue to buy the products that interest me (assuming the price isn't more than what I deem to be fair), but there certainly are some attributes of PMDG that rub me the wrong way. I assume there are many of us that feel this way.

Cheers, Pete

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

On this forum, it doesn't take long for the PMDG bashing to get going. 

Every forum.  except, you know, theirs, where they can delete anything they like.

There's valid reasons people like them,

There's valid reasons people hate them.

can't just acknowledge one half of the truth.

1 hour ago, psolk said:

even Fenix explained what the issue is with the lack of debug tools PMDG has available to them...

While true, don't forget it is PMDG's choice to be bound by having their coding run internally within MSFS.

And why have chosen that route? A desire to make more money from having the Xbox customer base available to them.
While I have no problem with PMDG seeking out the most profitable business course of action, let's not pretend that their reticence to use an external engine (like other developers have) is because of altruism towards Xbox users of MSFS.

41 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

Every forum.  except, you know, theirs, where they can delete anything they like.

There's valid reasons people like them,

There's valid reasons people hate them.

can't just acknowledge one half of the truth.

If someone "hates them," first of all, it sounds like that individual needs some professional help, and secondly, he or she can just buy someone else's products. 

1 minute ago, Bobsk8 said:

If someone "hates them," first of all, it sounds like that individual needs some professional help, and secondly, he or she can just buy someone else's products. 

I would love to.  And I do.  have become much more of an airbus pilot the last few years.  But If PMDG makes an aircraft or hints that they are going to make an aircraft in the future,  everyone else backs off.  If I didnt have to depend on RR and his hand in my wallet for competent Boeing sims, I'd be more charitable.

18 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

If someone "hates them," first of all, it sounds like that individual needs some professional help, and secondly, he or she can just buy someone else's products. 

Well I hate my ISP, but I can't switch to another one, because the others are even worse. Sometimes there's no valid alternative, e.g. if you want a 777 in this case (or just any study level long hauler for that matter)

Edited December 5, 20241 yr by Fiorentoni

2 hours ago, Nuno Pinto said:

Developing for MSFS in javascript is a pain in the neck.

In the last stackoverflow survey, which had the loved vs dreaded category, C++ was worse than javascript and much worse than typescript.

C++ -> 48% loved, 52% dreaded
javascript  -> 61% loved, 39% dreaded
typescript -> 73% loved, 27% dreaded

 

PMDG code in C++

Deal with it.

14 hours ago, F737MAX said:

While true, don't forget it is PMDG's choice to be bound by having their coding run internally within MSFS.

And why have chosen that route? A desire to make more money from having the Xbox customer base available to them.
While I have no problem with PMDG seeking out the most profitable business course of action, let's not pretend that their reticence to use an external engine (like other developers have) is because of altruism towards Xbox users of MSFS.

So you are actually trying to spin them staying within the constraints of the sim, operating like a business, expanding their user base by potentially thousands or even hundreds of thousands of users and adhering strictly to the MS SDK as a bad thing on their part?  Reticence to use an external engine?  Altruism?  They are a business.  

I don't understand the logic here...  Just goes to show how literally anything they do can be spun into a negative... 

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by psolk