4 minutes ago, Simselli said:

s this a fact? I had already decided not to buy it just now, but wait until it's released eventually to 2024.

Correct. https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/337691-28nov24-777f-release-date-737-update-and-happy-thanksgiving-to-our-fellow-americans?p=338393#post338393

"RSR will make some more comments on this soon, but until we know exactly what kind of work is needed to make full FS2024 products from an FS2020 product, there will be no definite answer on FS2024 pricing."

Edited December 5, 20241 yr by BrammyH

5 minutes ago, Simselli said:

Is this a fact? I had already decided not to buy it just now, but wait until it's released eventually to 2024.

They didn't say there will be an upgrade fee but didn't say that it will be free. They just don't know and it will depends on the workload required.

I'm ok to pay an upgrade fee for the 737 as this is a 2 years old model. I'm even ok to pay a small upgrade fee for the 77W. But I don't agree if I have to pay an upgrade fee for a product released after the release of msfs24. So, in doubt, I pass until we know more.

 

It's PMDG.  They will find a way to require an update fee.  He's gonna act like either A) the work required is mindblowingly difficult for them because something something Asobo something internal processes.  or B)There's new features now and we have to rebuild the product again to use the new features.  This isn't a new movie people, we've seen it before.

It's not like we haven't been forced to pay a 140% premium to buy the same exact products in the switch between FSX and p3dv3 form these guys before...

lets go iFly

Somebody for the love of god start making better Boeings

Edited December 5, 20241 yr by ShawnG
asobo for adobo. adobo is yummy

31 minutes ago, sdirand said:

They didn't say there will be an upgrade fee but didn't say that it will be free. They just don't know and it will depends on the workload required.

I'm ok to pay an upgrade fee for the 737 as this is a 2 years old model. I'm even ok to pay a small upgrade fee for the 77W. But I don't agree if I have to pay an upgrade fee for a product released after the release of msfs24. So, in doubt, I pass until we know more.

 

I'm with you on this, and do expect to pay an upgrade for the likes of the 737 line, But certainly not on one that's launched after the new sim has landed. 

Why are we giving them a pass on upgrade pricing for the 737?  if all they have to do is update the software "hooks" to accommodate a slight difference in the code architecture (which is what RR said was the issue), and they don't need to make a new 3D model, or code entire systems from scratch, why are you hinting that he can go ahead and help himself to more of your money?

Glad I didn’t delete MSFS2020. I’m a sucker for cargo variants of any aircraft. 

8 hours ago, El Diablito said:

....beacause they launched an EFB that isn't fancy enough and in record time you're denying yourself the privilege of flying outstanding aircraft? Hence the "cutting off your nose to spite your face" comment.

You should look past your frustration and get on board, I can't imagine anybody would have their overall flying experience tarnished just because of an EFB, which didn't even exist when both aircraft were launched into service anyway.

I purchased every PMDG product to date. I am not interested in PMDG going forward. Why do I have to get back on board when I don't want to spend money on PMDG products anymore? Better developers out there

4 hours ago, Ron Lefebvre said:

He does not NEED to get on board anything. He has a right to choose. PMDG is not the only game in town. Lots of people have been frustrated with PMDG for a long time now. The complaints are not all unwarranted.

As for tarnished flying experience,

IFly 737
Just flight Avro
Airbus till your ears bleed
TBM / Comanche

and so many others I have not mentioned that are top level aircraft's.

The days when PMDG is the only game in town is long gone.

Still, me,  I cant wait for December 6 and get my hands on the 777F

 

 

Ron, there isn't another Boeing 777 in the sim and Ifly have produced one model of Boeing. Seeing as you're his spokesperson, can you let him know? 

5 minutes ago, YukonPete said:

Why do I have to get back on board

because you're putting the aesthetics of an EFB above the fact that the actual plane is a joy to fly and I'm sure you would enjoy it. If it sounds like I'm trying to force you to a fly a plane in the sim then I'm afraid you are misinterpreting the message.

25 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

Why are we giving them a pass on upgrade pricing for the 737?  if all they have to do is update the software "hooks" to accommodate a slight difference in the code architecture (which is what RR said was the issue), and they don't need to make a new 3D model, or code entire systems from scratch, why are you hinting that he can go ahead and help himself to more of your money?

I'm not sure it's as simple as he says, given his early expectations for how PMDG products would react to the "drag and drop" migration to 2024 were incorrect. They can't even hook a debugger up as of the last update.

I also feel shipping the 77f without a full understanding of the migration to 24 makes some sense. He's been extraordinarily clear about the possibility of an additional fee. I also think he is aware of the optics of this and will work hard for there to not be a fee, given everyone else is making at least a compatibility fix free. But it's easier to backtrack not having a fee than back tracking off free*.

Folks like myself, who pretty much have both feet in 2024 are aware of the risks and can make a purchasing decision based on it. At the same time, if PMDG planes are what one flies 90% of the time, well, for a while they are still in 2020 anyway and probably want the 77f anyway. And even with both feet in 2024, until more of my planes are happy with 24, I'll be dipping my beak into 2020 to fly either the iFLY or PMDG. If the 777 comes in at a great price, I may get it. My definition of a great price will be determined when I actually see it.

*I am curious about what is going ton with iFLY and the move to 24. There hasn't been an update as to even what their initial findings are. My other airplanes I at least have an idea of the challenges the devs are facing. I hope this week they at least give a status update.

I don't think RR has ever worried about optics...  If he did, he would have hired somebody else to do all the customer facing stuff by now.

I don't fault anyone for not promising whatever.  it's a new thing, and Asobo hasn't released full SDK or Marketplace yet.  Most would deal with this by staying silent until more is known. or just releasing a simple statement of evaluation.  RR likes to yap, so he does.  Another point in iFly's favor.

But still, I cannot possibly imagine that the modeling and systems they developed for 2020 need extensive redevelopment, so i'd be skeptical of claims that it does, unless I hear that from every developer.  (Fenix is special case from their external systems, so thats why they are already out)  And given the fact that my wallet has been repeatedly ransacked for the same 4 aircraft since 2013,  I'm done.  I'm not having it anymore.  YMMV

I would be ashamend in the shoes of PMDG considering taking a upgrade fee since they just haven't used the "right" (modern) technology in the first place as other devs did. Why should the customer pay for that?

57 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

I am curious about what is going ton with iFLY and the move to 24. There hasn't been an update as to even what their initial findings are. My other airplanes I at least have an idea of the challenges the devs are facing.

The devs don't communicate with the community, which is bad. Then again they like usually stay silent for 4 weeks and then release an update with 300+ fixes, so I wouldn't worry too much. I'd rather have those that put their head down and go to work instead of those that prefer to tell us every single thing they've experienced in their past week (including Diarrhea).

7 minutes ago, 737_800 said:

I would be ashamed in the shoes of PMDG considering taking an upgrade fee since they just haven't used the "right" (modern) technology in the first place as other devs did. Why should the customer pay for that?

Maybe they should rebuild everything from scratch, and charge you $100 a shot for the 2024 versions?

1 minute ago, Christopher Low said:

Maybe they should rebuild everything from scratch, and charge you $100 a shot for the 2024 versions?

Maybe they should've used the right technology in the first place, so the transition wouldn't even require much effort and coding? This all indicates they haven't developed much in regard to bringing their product line into the modern world. Instead they apparently still use the technology from 10+ years ago, which also can be seen on their airplane, since look not much different than in FSX/P3D and leak still basic animations and other modern features that other developers deliver on the initial release. Sorry, but if they don't send their programmer to extra training or hire some who's able to change that philosophy, PMDG won't make it long with all the innovative developers who entered the MSFS market and will probably yet to enter.

I regret having bought the PMDG 738 on the last market place sale, I hope they won't charge anything. Even if, I won't buy it. Fly the PMDG (if necessary on FS20) and move to Ifly for FS24.