17 minutes ago, El Diablito said:

What has Blu-Ray ever given us?

🤣🤣🤣

3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Two nights ago. Blue-ray watching Life Of Brian. Whilst picture quality for streaming is close to physical media, sound still lags behind. I don’t live in a back country. I’m 10 miles from a major city.

And unlike streaming you always have access to anything stored on hardware in your house. All it needs is a hostile state to disrupt a country’s internet infrastructure and streaming is a non-starter.

 

Sad thing is, is that if a hostile state disrupts a countries internet infrastructure you probably wouldn't be able to watch that blue-ray unless you ran the hardware on a generator.

 

Streaming is the way of the future, its here now. They aren't going to design the hardware needed for a personal computer to hold the petabytes or exabytes of information needed for more and more detailed Earth. Also data streaming is a lot different than Cloud Gaming, in Cloud Gaming the gaming hardware itself is offsite. The game is processed offsite, receives the streamed inputs from the player and streams what the player, see's hears and reacts to, back to them. I think it's laggy  and it sucks but the fact is, is that it's here and it's constantly improving. 

 

I'm not for these things one way or the other. It's just the way it is.

 

I wouldn't want the evolution of flight simming to stop at FS2020, FS2024, XP12 or Aerofly for that matter.

 

 

Edited December 4, 20241 yr by laserit
clarification

19 minutes ago, laserit said:

Sad thing is, is that if a hostile state disrupts a countries internet infrastructure you probably wouldn't be able to watch that blue-ray unless you ran the hardware on a generator.

Surely that would depend on a country’s infrastructure. I would imagine most Western countries would have robust systems to protect themselves.

21 minutes ago, laserit said:

Streaming is the way of the future, its here now.

Not for this user. I’ve had four years to consider if the move to a streaming sim is ideal for me and the answer is still no. 2024 has just reinforced that decision.

13 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

I think we need more of these wild threads.  They're entertaining to read.

im just glad all you guys are paying to beta test yet another product.  

I love streaming, but as good as it is, even for those of us blessed with fast, cap-free internet, it's still not the gold standard for quality in video.  I stream most of what we watch these days, but still buy 4k Blu Ray for blockbusters that I know are well-shot with great sound that I'll likely watch more than once.  Why?  Bit rates for 4K Blu Ray run in the 92-144 Kbs range.  4K streaming services vary, depending on service and title but as one example, Netflix is generally  measured to max out somewhere around 16-17 Kbs.  That's for their major titles - others will be streamed at lower bit rates.  So streaming services are running with much higher compression rates to make up for the lower bit rates which results in artifacts.  Maybe you don't notice, but trust me once you've compared it's hard to unsee the differences on larger, quality 4K screens.

Heck, even in standard HD you can see the differences.  Take the infamous darker than dark scenes in GoT's Battle of Winterfell.  People were howling mad at the muddy mess that HBO streamed.  On the Blu Ray released later that year you could finally see what the director intended, minus the extreme solarization and muddy blacks so apparent in the stream.

What does all this have to do with MSFS 2024?  Not too much, really.  I still believe that once the server issues are cleaned up and stabilized, and some tweaks made in the client it will all work out and provide excellent quality for those with the aforementioned solid internet services.  And that 2024 will be widely accepted as the better product vs 2020. 

But streaming does have it's issues and limitations and it requires a lot of back-end resources with LOTS of scalability.  Getting this worked out is no easy task.  As a huge baseball fan, I've been a subscriber to MLB's streaming service almost since the beginning back in the early aughts, but it's really only been in the last 2-3 years that they've been able to provide consistent and reliable high quality HD images.  And the quality still reverts to a lower level from time to time.

Anyway, back to sims...

Scott

8 hours ago, Greazer said:

This is not online chess. This is a full on flight simulator. Core simmers buy expensive hardware, monitors and controllers etc and look to get maximum performance. Sitting at the terminal and waiting for the sim to download is a slap in the face. Jorg must come out and announce a major revision to rollback all this. Can't happen soon enough.

You are dreaming! This product is far from a full on flight simulator neither was FS2020. The "game" is available for Xbox. Call it what you want but it will never be a full on simulator.

What you wish for Jorg to do simply is most likely not going to happen.

If you are as disappointed as you seem there are other Flight Sim options if this is truly a dead end!

It is pointless to start another thread re-hashing the same non-sense you have already previously done!

 

3 hours ago, laserit said:

Streaming is the way of the future, its here now.

I can agree with you if we were talking about tv shows, movies, etc.,  but when it comes to a simulator I disagree. MS/Asobo shot themselves in the foot when they decided to stream and hoped for the best.

Edited December 4, 20241 yr by CarlosF

4 minutes ago, tpete61 said:

You are dreaming! This product is far from a full on flight simulator neither was FS2020. The "game" is available for Xbox. Call it what you want but it will never be a full on simulator.

 

🤣

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Surely that would depend on a country’s infrastructure. I would imagine most Western countries would have robust systems to protect themselves.

Not for this user. I’ve had four years to consider if the move to a streaming sim is ideal for me and the answer is still no. 2024 has just reinforced that decision.

I don’t limit myself, I enjoy both. I’m a glass is half full kind of guy. When my internet goes down I like to enjoy things from a bygone era. What was humorous, was what happened when I was at a retailer when their computers went down. I had to leave the store, they were incapable of doing an $8 sale.

I started thinking, long ago, about a model of flight simulation where the flight dynamics engine runs from a cloud-based infrastructure running an advanced flight and systems model and exchanging data with the clients that will only serve as a local feed of variables used in generating some aspects of teh display.

The upcoming version of Airlinetools A32x is a step in that direction. OFC we can't compare the scenery and graphics detail of Airlinetools with that of MSFS...

Home

I own the standalone version.

Edited December 4, 20241 yr by jcomm

Just now, CarlosF said:

I can agree with you if we were talking about tv shows, movies, etc.,  but when it comes to a simulator I disagree. MS/Asobo shot themselves in the foot when they decided to test the future. 

They are streaming data just like a movie, think of your cache like a buffer. The simming is all done locally. It’s crappy that its a show stopper for people without good internet access.

 

From what I’m experiencing, I have every confidence that they will iron out the wrinkles.

15 minutes ago, laserit said:

They are streaming data just like a movie, think of your cache like a buffer. The simming is all done locally. It’s crappy that its a show stopper for people without good internet access.

From what I’m experiencing, I have every confidence that they will iron out the wrinkles.

I really hope so, because I do not have a great deal of confidence with the 100% streaming model at the moment.

27 minutes ago, laserit said:

I don’t limit myself, I enjoy both. I’m a glass is half full kind of guy.

Good for you. I don't do much low-level flying. If I did MSFS2020 would be the obvious choice. I get my greatest satisfaction from flying Concorde - 23 miles a minute at 11 miles up. Then working out the decel point so I'm subsonic 55nm before landfall. Delta wing aircraft are a real challenge.

30 minutes ago, laserit said:

I had to leave the store, they were incapable of doing an $8 sale.

There have been similar incidents here when the internet goes down. One day it's going to cause real issues because just about everything depends on it now.

If you fall out of a boat, you're going to get wet. If you buy a new flightsim, you're going to get frustrated. Both have nearly identical odds of being true. MSFS2020 was the death knell of the franchise, remember? Years later, many of those doomsayers are clutching their pearls over 2024 and declaring that they're "leaving the building" as it were. 

I have 2020 running like greased lightning yet I still jumped into the 2024 fray (because I can quit anytime I want to, ha ha... 🤔). I'll spend a little time on `24 until I get frustrated or impatient, then go back to the safe confines of `20 which will do whatever I want and be predictably reliable.  I'll then spend a little more time on `24, and figure out a few more things there and be just a little less frustrated. I'm getting more comfortable and less frustrated as the days go by. I'll keep `20 up and running until 3rd party content (especially AI traffic) is as dominant on the new sim as it is on the old one. Learning the new key mapping is a bit of a curve and I now own a 25ft ethernet cable (which I haven't needed lately) but I have confidence `24 will get the kinks worked out. 

A year from now, I predict many of those who have "left the building" will be back on the ramp. Still complaining...but back on the ramp.

Happy Holidays to you all!

Brian

 

Agree one hundred percent with Starlifter60 comments. The traffic issue for me is key. After being a happy FSLTL user for a long time I'm very reluctant to go back to the MSFS traffic options. Still, I occasionally take one more stab at setting up my controllers....