I fly airliners in Free Flight 95% of the time, and 2024 works just as well (and better if you count performance) for those flights as 2020.

Right now I'm about 1.5 hours away from landing a RJBB-LFPG flight in the A330-200

I have almost 400 hours in 2024 right now.

Edited January 26, 20251 yr by Tuskin38

1 minute ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

In many respects, 2024 IS ready for prime time, especially now SU1 has already made good progress.  This may not be true for everybody of course, because they may be waiting for VR improvements or be waiting for their favourite aircraft to be available.

I think the term 'prime time' is slightly misleading though.  It suggests 2024 isn't fully playable as a sim, which it is of course.

Define fully playable?

I'm uninstalling MSFS 2020 today, don't even need one more SU.

For me after quite a bit setup from in my opinion and not very intuitive setup process for 2024 I definitely see the potential.    Many many silly bugs and things that should have had optional settings so users can decide (for example forced historical weather)....but I am now 50/50 flying between 2020 and 2024 and I can see switching over in a SU or 2 to being fully on 2024. 

From my own experience over the past month, 2024 in Free Flight has been absolutely stable, fluid, and is is a meaningful step forward in graphics fidelity (ground representation, textures, lighting), ground handling, and flight modeling. It was a rocky first month, but the hot fixes did stabilize things and SU1 has really polished things up. For those wanting to operate just in Free Flight without using VR then it is difficult to see how 2024 is not ready. Yes, you may be waiting for certain third-party developers to release their aircraft, and hopefully SU1 does fully unblock PMDG and Blacksquare, but that is not an issue with the sim itself. I should add, that I do not fly default aircraft, so the aircraft I use are in my community folder and not streamed. Whether that helps with stability or not I do not know, but I have not had streaming issues for over a month.

Now, you will have to deal with what are, in my view, some pretty strange design decisions, especially with things like control assignments. I actually think the functionality has been built out well, it is more flexible and powerful than 2020, but the user interface is needlessly complicated. The overall interface is quite console game inspired, but while I am not a huge fan I have grown accustomed to it and I appreciate they have likely done this to attract and keep those who use the sim on consoles. So I am okay with this, partly as I want those on consoles to have a good time with the sim and partly as I am old enough to know that without them 2024 loses financial viability. Hopefully some of the other design decisions -- like Back On Track mode -- will become optional soon -- as for me this the absolutely worse and most irritating thing in the sim!

Now, if you are wanting to use the sim in VR it is not ready and it will likely be a frustrating experience. I do not use VR but I am aware of the issues and they would certainly be at best irritating and at worse make the game very difficult to play. Likewise, if you want 2024 just to play missions and build yourself up an aviation dynasty, well..., how can I say it, it has a long, long way to go.

It is just my experience, but 2024 is now stable, streaming reliably, and looks and behaves great. I am not sure why it would require another year to 18 months of development to be at a 2020 level. They have said sim updates will be larger and there will only be 1 each quarter, so 4 a year. 

2 hours ago, andy1252 said:

@abrams_tank, a genuine question here, and not made with any sort of snarkiness, but you pop up so constantly with praise for MSFS that I'm curious. Are you actually in any way affiliated / invested in MSFS? As I say, a genuine question, as it would obviously have a bearing on your posts. It may well be that you are just a confirmed and solid supporter of the product (as am I), but having any kind of even semi-official relationship obviously affects others' perception of your posts.

Not even sure if I'm allowed to ask this sort of thing here, and of course you could always be a little parsimonious with the truth in any reply anyway. Not looking to create a fuss, just would like to be more comfortable with what I'm reading. I wouldn't take the Pope's advice on birth control seriously, simply because of his position, but then I know what his position is going to be, given his job title.

And apologies if you do have any kind of official role which is well known to others (if not me).

Also, apologies to the moderators if this is considered inappropriate and in that case, obviously remove it. No offense to anyone intended.

Nope, I am not affiliated with MSFS or Microsoft in any way. If you dig far enough in my posting history, you will even see that I was somewhat supportive of XP 12 before it came out, hoping that XP 12 would be better than MSFS 2020, so I could jump ship to XP 12.  When XP 12 came out though, it was not even close to MSFS 2020, as per my preferences (everybody has different preferences and I understand why some people prefer XP 12, but those were my preferences).

You can also dig through my posts and I was pretty critical of the first Canada World Update because I fly in the metro Vancouver area.  The first Canada World Update was just terrible for metro Vancouver and I complained about it. Fortunately, the MSFS team did a second version of the Canada World Update, and the second version is much better for metro Vancouver.  In addition, I have been slightly critical of the release of MSFS 2024, but to be honest, I expected a messy release, because I was there for the release of MSFS 2020 too.  Look at my post announcing the release of MSFS 2024, and you can clearly see I was telling people it would take 2 to 3 months to smoothen things out and fix some of the major bugs: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/654101-msfs-2024-has-been-released/.  And SU1 is right on schedule, with respect to my 2 to 3 month prediction 🤣.  Heck, in that post, I even told people to stick with MSFS 2020 until the MSFS team had a chance to sort out the bugs with MSFS 2024 🤣

I am just a flight simmer who wants the best flight sim that modern hardware can provide. If P3D, XP, FSX, Condor Flight, Flight Gear, Infinite Flight, MSFS, etc, can reach that goal and the price is reasonable, then I will gladly jump ship to that flight simulator.  I like to use the term "holy grail of flight simulation" given the constraints of that particular year's hardware capabilities.  Also, staying loyal to one flight simulator is not my style - if there is a much better widget out there that is reasonably priced and is affordable, it's time to jump ship!

The fact of that matter is though, MSFS 2020 was the closest to the "holy grail of flight simulation" for the hardware available in 2020.  And now MSFS 2024 is the closest to the "holy grail of flight simulation" for the hardware available in 2024/2025.

I don't want to wait for the other competitors to catch up to MSFS 2024.  I honestly think it may take the competition over a decade to catch up to MSFS 2024 - I could be dead in a decade, lol.  With MSFS 2024, especially the graphics at ground level, the gap is just so wide between MSFS 2024 and the nearest competition.

I knew when MSFS 2020 was released, we had something special, and that in time, when the bugs were sorted out, MSFS 2020 would be the best civilian flight sim within a few years time.  I think I was right.  By 2024 and SU 15, MSFS 2020 was the pinnacle of civilian flight simulation, and the Navigraph survey results backs that up.  I also think that MSFS 2024 is on the same trajectory as MSFS 2020 and once the bugs get sorted out, the overwhelming majority of the flight sim community will be praising MSFS 2024 as the pinnacle of civilian flight simulation (in fact, some people already think it is the pinnacle right now with the SU1 Beta).

 

 

Edited January 26, 20251 yr by abrams_tank

24 minutes ago, Cognita said:

I am not sure why it would require another year to 18 months of development to be at a 2020 level. They have said sim updates will be larger and there will only be 1 each quarter, so 4 a year. 

I would like to be conservative with my estimates so 4 to 6 Sim updates is a conservative estimate from me.  But honestly, I think if SU1 goes well and SU2 goes well (especially the VRAM fix for SU2), there could be a huge migration from MSFS 2020 users to MSFS 2024 after SU2 is released.  I guess we will see.

1 hour ago, RobJC said:

Define fully playable?

Does that need further definition?

2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

This reminds me of windows 10 and 11. Two thirds of windows users prefer the older Windows 10, and it has nothing to do with hardware now, because windows now allows older systems to install 11, yet people still like 10.

It sounds similar, but having switched from windows 10 to 11 and not noticed any real difference...  2024 is way better than 2020.  At least for me.  🙂

I liked 2024 from the first. But performance on a 4070 5800X3D would degrade at certain airports with planes that need top hardware to perform. Stutters. After switching to the brand new Nvidia 571.96 driver, performance problems do not exist for me anymore.

The DLSS4, and 2024 Beta were very helpful due to better graphics. But it was the new display driver which I appreciated more. Because what I needed most was at least 30 fps everywhere before any FG or scaling was added. For someone with top end hardware, this new driver might not be such a big deal. It doesn't upgrade graphic quality that I can see. Only performance.

Good reading…..love your opinions …FS2024 is mega now,  never mind in 12 months from now or whenever, I’ve just done a full 2 hour flight in VR in the A330 and it was absolutely awesome, no problems from start to finish… things have improved I think significantly since launch and especially with the latest su1 beta👍

3 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

I think we both agree that MSFS 2024 is a huge step up from MSFS 2020.  I don't even use MSFS 2020 anymore. I only have MSFS 2020 installed in case I get the urge to fly the PMDG 737, but that urge is not strong enough for me to boot up MSFS 2020.   Unfortunately, it's the wider flight sim community, especially the holdouts still using MSFS 2020, that don't agree. Some of the more ardent holdouts, probably need about 4 to 6 Sim Updates, before they convert over to 2024.

Ahhh gotcha, sorry I misunderstood. 👍

I told myself 2024 would be ready to install within 1-3 months post launch.  We're at 2mo and a week and by golly looks like it's going to be ready for me when SU1 final launches.   Whoopee!  In the mean time we continue to have a blast w/ 2020 + SLC + BATC + APL + PMDG/FBW and even WT787X!

7 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

So I am constantly surfing various forums, including Avsim, Reddit, and the official MSFS forums, and there has been a significant change in atmosphere after the SU1 beta started.  With the flightsim and MicrosoftFlightSim subreddits in Reddit, there has been a huge shift in atmosphere regarding MSFS 2024.  While a lot of negative posts dominated the flightsim and MicrosoftFlightSim subreddits before last week, suddenly, there are a lot of positive posts about MSFS 2024 and SU1.  It seems like SU1 has started to shift people's viewpoints and mood on MSFS 2024.  Like people were very genuinely angry when the Developer Update was released on January 16th and showed that a lot of bugs and wishlist items wouldn't make it for SU1, and then when SU1 beta is released, it's like the Reddit community has done a 180 and now they are quite positive on MSFS 2024.

It's crazy what one Sim Update can do.  I certainly didn't expect such a huge shift in perception in one Sim Update, especially because we already had about 3 patches for MSFS 2024 before SU1 beta started.

So barring any major architectural changes to MSFS 2024 in the next 1 to 1.5 years, I think Free Flight for MSFS 2024 may be very good within 4 to 6 Sim Updates - that is, MSFS 2024 Free Flight in 4 to 6 Sim updates, may match or exceed even MSFS 2020 Free Flight.  Notice I emphasize "may" though, because if there is a major architectural change to MSFS 2024 again, then all bets are off.  What do I mean by a major architectural change? Well, SU5 for MSFS 2020 is a good example.  They pretty much revamped much of MSFS 2020 in SU5 for the XBox release.  And yeah, a lot of PC users of MSFS 2020 got pretty angry after SU5 because a lot of bugs were introduced and it seemed like things went backwards.  Another major architectural change was SU7 for MSFS 2020.  I think that's the one where they changed live weather, to blend METAR bubbles with the Meteo Blue data outside of METAR areas.  SU7 also got a lot of people angry because live weather seemed to take a step back again.

So if there are no major architectural changes to MSFS 2024 in the next 1 to 1.5 years, I think Free Flight can be very good within 4 to 6 Sim Updates.  If the MSFS team just focuses on fixing bugs like they are doing in SU1, Free Flight in MSFS 2024 can be very, very good by next year.  And I think the overwhelming majority of add-ons will probably be ported to MSFS 2024 by next year (actually, most of them should be ported to MSFS 2024 within the next 6 months), if what Randazzo said about the blocking issue being fixed for MSFS 2024 is accurate.

There were rumors that MSFS 2024 was going to revamp ATC and that Working Title may have been involved in the ATC revamp project, but they are just rumors and I have not seen any substantial evidence that ATC would be revamped for MSFS 2024.  But let's say Working Title or some other group in the MSFS team is doing a major revamp of ATC for MSFS 2024 but their work couldn't make the release date for MSFS 2024 last November. Well, that would probably count as a major architectural change and once again, it would look like progress is stalled or maybe progress has gone a little backwards with MSFS 2024, just like SU5 and SU7.

Now I specifically mentioned Free Flight, because Career Mode is a whole different other matter.  I am not so sure that the bugs can be fixed in Career Mode within 4 to 6 Sim Updates.  Career Mode is just that buggy, it is going to take some time to fix the bugs (despite the bugs, I am able to get through Career Mode and I have my own company and I own 2 Cessna 172s at the moment, so I am enjoying it). But if you are coming from an MSFS 2020 background, and Free Flight is all you care about, then what matters is Free Flight in MSFS 2024 anyways.  As for me, I can't go back to MSFS 2020, even though I am patiently waiting for the PMDG 737-800 to be ported over to MSFS 2024.  After using MSFS 2024, it's simply too hard to go back to MSFS 2020.  And with what people are reporting for SU1 for MSFS 2024, once SU1 is released, it will be even harder for me to go back to MSFS 2020, lol.

 

 

My biggest issue your post is why are you so intrigued with what redit board and whatever else site you look to for information. 2024 free flight is good to go and I'm loving it. With the latest update 2024 got even more thrilling and my choice simulator. When PMDG and Flight one bring over there 737, 2020 will be history on my machine.

Hopefully will be ready sooner for me to switch. Get rid of walking around requirements in all modes, PMDG all compatible, and full AIG compatibility, ALL without needing workarounds is enough for me. I don’t do bush flying and don’t care about walking around looking at rocks and grass, but from 2024 videos I have seen it has superior visuals in every way.