I personally think that this is FABULOUS news. All of those who moaned and groaned about the Microsoft invovlement don't have that complaint. Or, perhaps Microsoft will job the work out to these guys rather than have them be an in-house deal. Think the former is most likely.

Don't forget that Aces is the team that brought us an "abortion of code writing" as Nick Needham terms it.If they achieved that through their own technical ineptitude or because of time constraints placed on them by their former employer makes no difference to me.I would not trust them to replace FSX with anything better to be honest.Bryan.

Profesional Flight simulator software is a complex product, that requires more code and design effort than most if not all games out there.As a result i think someone needs to encourage all this guys to use some open source deign to build a common flight sim platform, then each can create addons on top of the basic platform. I think that is the only way we will get something that would be worth the upgrade from FSX.Cauese non of this companies have the budget of microsoft, as a result i doubt they will have the resources to come up with something to rival FSX, case in point Xplane. Xplanes has the planes and the enviroment, but lacks the detail.If each decides to go it alone and compete, then i suggest you guys best keep your FSX CD in a safe place, cause you wil be needing it.The only way we will get something to succed FSX is if they team up to create common platform, then they can compete on the addons.But if a big player like microsoft comes into this market, then its possible to do it alone. Cause there is no real market out there to justify the resources required to create a flight sim product the standard of FSX.I suspect the flight sim products from microsoft only lasted so long not due to financial prudence, but mcirosoft insiders who are also flight simmers at heart.I think Xplane, new ACES team, and Aerosoft should all just team up to create common platform, then compete at the addon level. Else it all could be one big mess.

Hi FolksDon't think this is Aces Reformed!rather ex-Aces now doing their own thing.Look forward to hearing more.HTHATBPaul

Geez - all this negativity!What's up? Bad weather or something got you down?I think FSX is a great product, I use it all the time and get a lot of enjoyment out of flying and finding addons to make it even better.Geez, unless you were there involved in the coding and understand all the constraints involved, and/or have also actually coded a better product, your credibility is about nil.If there's a better product out there at any price, please let me know.Let's give these guys at least a chance before we write them off. Why don't you provide support instead of cutting them down before they start.Would you raise your kids talking like that?"Well, if that's the same kid who couldn't walk when he was born, what makes you think he'll ever learn?"

Don't forget that Aces is the team that brought us an "abortion of code writing" as Nick Needham terms it.If they achieved that through their own technical ineptitude or because of time constraints placed on them by their former employer makes no difference to me.I would not trust them to replace FSX with anything better to be honest.Bryan.

Despite all its flaws, FSX was and still is the best there is. No one else has come forward, and done it better! As far as Aerosofts plans of creating a flight simulator goes... Will it simulate the whole world with over 20,000 airports. Will it have ATC. Basically Aerosoft will have to offer everything that FSX already has, and do it better! Plus give us better visuals. I have my doubts!Chris,

Interesting news. I wonder if Microsoft would ever consider outsourcing to these folks at Cascade to possibly extend the life of the MSFS franchise in some form or, even contribute to what they are supposedly working on now??

I think Rick Selby had been in charge of MSTS 2? As far as sims, Aerosoft now sell farm sim, bus sim, subway sim, so I don't think there is a shortage of areas which some one sees a market for.scott s..

Don't forget that Aces is the team that brought us an "abortion of code writing" as Nick Needham terms it.

These are interesting opinions, certainly provide for entertaining reading but how close they area from real truth? So far I have not see any concrete evidence that they botched the software. And I am afraid the evidence would have to come in the form of another flight simulation with comparable graphics/features but significantly improved performance. Unless such a day comes I am afraid this just ... singin in the rain.

Despite all its flaws, FSX was and still is the best there is. Chris,

Nope! FS9 is much better in many aspects! Wolfgang

Anyone else notice that the PR doesn't actually say they're making a flight simulator? They are going "beyond" flight simulator and railroad simulators, which to me says they aren't making either of those. -Alex

Cause there is no real market out there to justify the resources required to create a flight sim product the standard of FSX.

I suspect that may be the underlying reason why Microsoft closed ACES in the first place. I've worked on aumber of (non-computer) projects and there always comes the point when someone asks "how much extra profit will this extra expenditure generate"? I imagine Microsoft's conclusion was not enough!We enthusiasts, who come to these forums, are a tiny part of the market that's needed to support significant expenditure on developing an update to something as detailed as FSX. Look at the thread FSvNextWishList in Hangar Chat. How many of those wishes will be of the slightest interest to the general public who are the real target market: in fact how many of them of of much interest except to the posters themselves? My favourite is "Lets have birds and allow bird dung to get on the window" - now that is really going to increase sales, isn't it? Can't you just see it splashed across the CD case as a unique selling point?It may be heresy to say so here but I will. FSX is detailed enough for its intended commercial market and further expansion isn't justified. Yes, enthisiasts want more but I believe that Microsoft realised the tarket market didn't. And that's the market that matters.My opinion is that because Cascade Games Foundary is a start-up company then it will (must?) look for a product than can be developed relatively quickly and sold in significant numbers to generate an income stream s soon as possible. It's backers will expect that. I believe that this rules out developing anything like FS11 from scratch. And it would have to be developed from scratch: using ex-ACES staff means the company can't risk a challenge from Microsoft.

Geez - all this negativity!What's up? Bad weather or something got you down?I think FSX is a great product, I use it all the time and get a lot of enjoyment out of flying and finding addons to make it even better.

Agree with you totally Flyings Cool. To use an a few lightly edited lines from the Batman movie The Dark Night: " Because some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."The rest of us however are easily bought and relish what this new studio might bring to the hobby table. We are mostly flight simmers here and so our focus is on what this new studio might bring in terms of flight simulation. One poster suggested the news release from Cascade Game foundry didn't explicitly say they were going produce a flight simulator. Of course they didn't explicitly deny it either so anything is possible, but (as others have suggested) the issue of 'restraint of trade' clauses that may be hanging around ex MS employees involved with the new company does beg the question of just what thay can do competitvely without directly stepping on Microsofts shoes? What struck me was that their release wasn't anything about flight simulation or train simulation but about "world" simulation. Now that is ESP in another name isn't it? Since ESP was an MS idea but not an actual product, maybe Cascade Game Foundry have found an area where they can legally compete. A product that appeals to Governments, large organisations, flight sim and train enthusiasts as well as the "buy it, use it and throw it away" gaming crowd, with unlimited opportunities for whole game or add-on developers.You would need a heck of lot of talent to bring software like this to market and where else would you get that from but an ex Microsoft Studio? Now I suspect there will be some well known people chime into this discussion later on who will have some very interesting things to say about this because they are close to the industry. One person that I know will be reading these posts is Phil Taylor...remember Phil?.....Of course we do :( In his role at Aces he gave us more insight into the MS Flight Simulation franchise than anyone had ever done. I would dearly love to hear what Phil's musings on these latest developments are. Now I'm going to be a little cheeky. :( This thread is going to carry a lot of speculation. Some of it will be identified quickly as utter codswollop and some of it will raise a curious eyebrow or two, but mostly none of it will end up being true. So here is my contribution to speculation trivia. I notice Phil Taylor has not blogged regarding his Larabee work, or about anything at all for that matter for over a month and a half. Could his interests lie somewhere else?They've just commenced descent, there are a wall of CB's on approach and it will be sometime before we see them turning onto long finals but, I for one look forward to the Cascade Game Foundry offering us the 'world' when they finally touchdown.

I'll believe it when I see it... untill then it's FSX and real world flying....but I will offer them all the best in whatever they do.

Cool, this surprises me! It surprises me because I used to work at ACES (for only a couple months) and have not heard about this yet! I believe Rick Selby was the lead for Train Simulator II which I might add looked very cool. It will be very interesting to see what they do. I personally think it won't be flight based. More like different word simulation experiences (which might include flying), but I guess we just have to wait and see. I also believe a couple of the old ACES members are still at Microsoft working on something else as well. We have yet to find out what that is too!

Cool, this surprises me! It surprises me because I used to work at ACES (for only a couple months) and have not heard about this yet! I believe Rick Selby was the lead for Train Simulator II which I might add looked very cool. It will be very interesting to see what they do. I personally think it won't be flight based. More like different word simulation experiences (which might include flying), but I guess we just have to wait and see. I also believe a couple of the old ACES members are still at Microsoft working on something else as well. We have yet to find out what that is as well!

I agree with Sipos. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not expecting FS11 from this group.Cheers,