Well, you would know more than i do about the inner workings of FSX Pete. Fair point.

So hopefully we will see ProATC creating its own Al then, in time?

No, I'd not use it then, because, like VOXATC, it won't be able to do it anywhere near as well as dedicated aI traffic packages like UT2 and MyTrafficX. I want my airports and skies populated realistically. The ATC program should concentrate on doing ATC well.

 

What it can do is detect AI traffic movements and generate appropriate sound instructions and responses not to control what they are doing but in line with what they are doing. This is what Radar Contact does. It can also prevent runway incursions, get conflicting aI out of the way, and, in taxi instructions, say things like "follow the xxx" or "you're number 3 for takeoff" accurately. Radar Contact already does most of this, though not always entirely sduccessfully, and I'm sure ProATC/X will be able to do just as well -- maybe even better because it only has FSX/P3D to concentrate on, not FS9, and is talking directly to SimConnect rather than only to FSUIPC with it's subset of facilities.

 

Pete

 

Thanks for that clarifying explanation Pete. I never realized there is somewhat of an impossibility to control AI with an external program. Guess it's thanks to MS for not releasing an SDK for ATC. To bad they underestimated the role of AI traffic for a lot of users. I recall reading on one of the ACES devs blogs at that time, they believe AI was to become obsolete in favor of online ATC which they attempted to facilitate in FSX.

Maybe ProATC or RC5 (if ever released) finds a way to cleverly work with everything that is possible.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Let's be clear about this again.

No, ProATC-X doesn't interact with AI in the same way the default FSX ARC does but you must remember that the defualt FSX ATC goes on doing what it always does in the background.  It talks to your AI, wherever you got that from, it just doesn't talk to you.

 

As ProATC-X uses the same Comms frequencies that FSX ATC would, you hear FSX ATC talking to the aircraft around you as normal. It is does not talk to you as you have not asked for a clearance from it but you do NOT just hear canned chatter in ProATC-X. In fact, I have the canned chatter switched off.

 

The lack of AI interaction can be a pain on the ground but I actually prefer it in the air as you have to look after yourself and the default ATC never worked in that regard anyway. If you do get a traffic warning from FSX ATC it's usually when you're already far far too close to do anything about it or in many cases after the conflicting traffic has gone past. That's worse than useless.

In any event, I find the service vehicles much more deadly on the ground than other aircraft.  Firstly they don't seem to give way to anything: catering truck outranks fully loaded B747 anytime of day or night apparently, and unlike AI aircraft, you can't turn collisions with service vehicles off. 

If you want to fly European SIDs & STARS, ProATC-X is a huge step forward from the default ATC. I can't compare it to RC4 or any of the others as I've never used them.

 

 

As ProATC-X uses the same Comms frequencies that FSX ATC would, you hear FSX ATC talking to the aircraft around you as normal. It is does not talk to you as you have not asked for a clearance from it but you do NOT just hear canned chatter in ProATC-X. In fact, I have the canned chatter switched off.

 

Right now that's the best option with PROATC/X, but that means you are still hearing the glaring problems with default ATC in the air. Mainly the wider TCAS separation resulting in a unrealistic number of traffic advisories, busting altitude alerts, when the barometric pressure changing. (I eliminated this problem with my modifications with editvoicepack), and AI vectoring. With PFE only the problem with AI vectoring is left. If PROATC/x does add AI interaction, I hope they do something like ignore AI vectoring instructions above a certain altitude, either User defined in settings or maybe better, above transition altitude. I think RC4.3 tried to do this, but they also appear to have masked interim altitude climb/descent  instructions, which is the opposite extreme, and my main problem with it.

 

 

With PFE only the problem with AI vectoring is left. If PROATC/x does add AI interaction, I hope they do something like ignore AI vectoring instructions above a certain altitude, either User defined in settings or maybe better, above transition altitude.

 

This you will never see in the near future unless Microsoft releases code and SDK (see post 763 above). 

 

Best regards,

Jim

This you will never see in the near future unless Microsoft releases code and SDK (see post 763 above).

 

Best regards,

Jim

It seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to do! The altitude of the AI aircraft is available from the SDK, it would just be a matter of the ATC program to suppress it's own Voice/text instruction if the aircraft is above the set altitude. It wouldn't need to control the AI to do this. The AI would still be under the FSX AI system control, doing it's own thing.

 

It probably could have been done with a single conditional statement in the program. (Using the transition altitude option)

 

If Vector Instruction and (AI Altitude > Transition Altitude)

Then

Suppress instruction;

Else

Play Instruction;

 

Not knowing the structure of the actual program, this maybe a little simplistic view, but I don't think it's something not doable.

What are you all using for ATC these days? 

 

Looks like an update for ProATC has not been released yet? 

I gave up on PRO-ATC/X over 4 months ago. If you read through the posts in this thread, you will see that up until a year ago, this product was a work in progress with constant communication and updates from the developer, but seemed to come to an abrupt end on May 05 last year. Since then it has been reduced to the support of two moderators on their forum, fielding questions on issues with the software in its present state, which some would describe as beta. At least one of the moderators will either delete your post, lock the thread or completely delete the topic, if you dare to ask about the update promised for months and has now stretched to past a year.

 

In my opinion it is procedurally incorrect and incomplete, and has many bugs leaving me regretting my investment.

To give an impression about PRO ATC X for potential buyers:

 

An interested customers asked about other users opinion about PRO ATC X in their forum.

Several users gave an answer, me included. And we just old him facts and our opinion in a not rude way.

 

Everything negative was deleted, but not enough, I'm banned there now without any further comment 

 

That is my first ban in my flightsimulation history.

 

 

So potential buyers: make your own decisions ...  :lol:

I agree, the forum monitors on ProATC seem to stifle any negative comments, no matter how carefully they have been crafted to be reasonable and straight forward.

 

The developer doesn't appear to respond to requests as many have stated.

 

I own a copy but have not used this software in a long time as I'm waiting for the new version to appear..

 

This is truly unfortunate!

 

Bill Clark

Bottom line..Is there a definitive answer that a major patch is enroute?

 

 

Bottom line..Is

 

Bottom line is... Can you trust the Developer and his forum Moderator.

The Patch was due in January, don't hold your breath waiting for this one

To me, Pro-ATC hit a new rock bottom today. My post in their forum got deleted even though all I said was that potential customers should do their research before buying Pro-ATC. I don't know ...

Almost All negative threads are being deleted.  Its a good way to keep selling a product that still needs alot of work.  Keep forum open, delete negative comments and you as the developer dont even have to answer any questions.. Great business tactics.. :-)

To me, Pro-ATC hit a new rock bottom today. My post in their forum got deleted even though all I said was that potential customers should do their research before buying Pro-ATC. I don't know ...

...and your surprised a post desuading potential customers on a commercial developers forum from buying their product got deleted? I venture to say that would happen on any developers own forums.

...and your surprised a post desuading potential customers on a commercial developers forum from buying their product got deleted? 

Good point, but a year ago you could openly discuss the products of competitors there. Now that surprised me.

 

I guess my point is that Pro-ATC is sold as a fully developed program (version 1.x), but on my system I wouldn't say it works accordingly. Furthermore, their web page promises features that are currently not included, but will hopefully be included in a future update. IMHO, potential customers should know that the product doesn't work as advertised for a number of customers.

 

What they are doing on their forum is to prevent that people can make an informed decision about their purchase. You are right, it is perfectly rational to do this, but still ..