Where did you see that? I didn't know there was another angle.

I saw it on Facebook and it was only the very end of the crash.

one of the 8 killed

Thankfully I believe the final count is only 7. Doesn't make it any less of a tragedy though.

Here's something I was thinking about.   If the crew had enough altitude to use to build up speed for a stall recovery, what would happen to the position of the loose cargo?  I would assume the pallets, or the wheeled MRAPS, would have shifted to the front of the plane once the dive began, but what would happen if the 747 managed to level off?   Would that same cargo then return back to the center, or worse, back to the aft position that caused the stall to begin with?   I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, would a larger altitude buffer really have made a difference in the final outcome?

You can see that the 747 almost flips over on it's back.  The pilots would have been battling this thing from takeoff and to me it looks like a load issue.  

 

The exact cause of this tragedy will come out with the investigation....but yes a very difficult video to watch.

 

I feel for the families of those lost in this crash.

 

Roy

Here's something I was thinking about.   If the crew had enough altitude to use to build up speed for a stall recovery, what would happen to the position of the loose cargo?  I would assume the pallets, or the wheeled MRAPS, would have shifted to the front of the plane once the dive began, but what would happen if the 747 managed to level off?   Would that same cargo then return back to the center, or worse, back to the aft position that caused the stall to begin with?   I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, would a larger altitude buffer really have made a difference in the final outcome?

I doubt a comparison could be made. They didn't even have time to reach for the gear handle indicating a violent and aggressive pitch up on rotation forcing the load further rear wards

 

Forces would have been gentler at altitude , the load shift not so catastrophic and the control inputs not so violent  Sadly any weak link would be exposed at the worst possible time, at rotation.

Last 747 cargo crash of significance I can recall is a UPS 747-400 crash in Dubai, caused by the carriage of flammable lithium ion batteries.

 

There was the Asiana Airlines Crash not so long after UPS6, I think it was in July or August 2011, where an inflight fire is also suspected as the cause.

 

That wing drop is a classic stall characteristic of many aircraft, but I thought they might have been using the rudder to attempt to roll out of the nose high position - isn't that what is taught with power on departure stalls?

 

Still terribly, terribly sad :(

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To think that they saw death coming is just terrifying. One of the pilots left behind his wife of two weeks. 

 

RIP  :(

I hate to see planes crashing.

 

 

GOD BLESS YOU!

Very sad, indeed :-(

While on the subject we lost a local airman over there the other day.  Capt. Reid K. Nishizuka USAF was killed when his MC-12 (Beech Super King Air) went down in Kandahar.  His brother is just a year younger also a USAF Capt (B-2 pilot).   Requiem in Pacem.

 

scott s.

.

I use to fly MC-12's, I am perplexed as to what happened, I'm still flying as a contractor, i can safely rule out weather.

 

Todd

I saw video from a different angle from the rear yesterday.

Can you post a link to this video? I've only seen the one posted here in this thread.

Here's something I was thinking about. If the crew had enough altitude to use to build up speed for a stall recovery, what would happen to the position of the loose cargo? I would assume the pallets, or the wheeled MRAPS, would have shifted to the front of the plane once the dive began, but what would happen if the 747 managed to level off? Would that same cargo then return back to the center, or worse, back to the aft position that caused the stall to begin with? I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, would a larger altitude buffer really have made a difference in the final outcome?

I've been wondering the same thing. I'm no weight and balance specialist, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the 747 is a big airplane, so it would require a large quantity of cargo or a very heavy one to change its position in order to catastrophicaly shift the CG and crash the airplane. Perhaps, during a stall recovery attempt at a higher altitude, the cargo could have shifted back forward putting the airplane in an unrecoverable nose dive. If the crew managed to regain control of the airplane, the cargo could start hitting the fuselage walls and eventually damage them or open a hole somewhere, causing even more problems.

 

That's all speculation, though. All we can do now is wish that the crew can rest in peace, wait for the investigation results and try to learn a new lesson from this accident.

I've been wondering the same thing. I'm no weight and balance specialist, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the 747 is a big airplane, so it would require a large quantity of cargo or a very heavy one to change its position in order to catastrophicaly shift the CG and crash the airplane. Perhaps, during a stall recovery attempt at a higher altitude, the cargo could have shifted back forward putting the airplane in an unrecoverable nose dive. If the crew managed to regain control of the airplane, the cargo could start hitting the fuselage walls and eventually damage them or open a hole somewhere, causing even more problems.

They were too slow to ever regain control based on that video, they were at takeoff speed, where elevator authority is at its lowest, had something like this happened at a higher speed they may have had a chance, but just after rotation they would have been way too low on energy to recover I believe.

 

Regards,

Ró.

the actual plane, such a beautiful bird

 

http://nycaviation.com/forum/threads/45741-National-Air-Cargo-744-Crash-at-Bagram

 

 

 

 

 

The video was featured on "Good Morning America" (ABC) this morning. They had the sensitivity and good sense however to freeze the replay before ground contact...