7 minutes ago, Travelling_Wilbury said:

Where in my post did I mention DTG ? Or developers not supporting DTG ? I was replying to Chock's statement regarding FSX and P3D V3 addons porting over too P3DV4. My example was having a go at a certain dev charging twice for the same product, like a well known cockpit addon made for a well known aircraft.

You might have mis understood, or did not read what i said correctly.

Yea sorry misunderstood your point

 

I read several dev statements and they said that the will support FSW. But, how many sims do we really need?

I had FSX fully loaded and XP 11. Now I only have a fully loaded P3D v4.

I don't have time for another sim. But, I do have SOME time to talk about another sim.

Given that FSW have spent years (and presumably millions) negotiating the rights with Microsoft, assembled a largish team managed by someone with AAA experience, observed and reacted to community feedback, invested in Accusim, Orbx and TrueSky for the base package and priced it cheaper than most add ons for current sims, I would say we have enough evidence to predict they have the commitment and resources to crowbar this sim to a position at the top.

Personally, it's at a stage even in early access where I just have more fun with it and feel more potential in it than XP11. Really interested and excited to see what the next year holds and I haven't felt that about flight sims for a long time.

9 minutes ago, DJJose said:

I read several dev statements and they said that the will support FSW. But, how many sims do we really need?

Each simmer only needs one, assuming the sim meets all his needs. The flight sim market as a whole needs a few, because multiple sims in competition encourages innovation and discourages price gouging. And because monopolies are bad for consumers.

With regard to an SDK, until there is a solid unmoving base platform in place with all the features neatly boxed off in a manner suitable for a release of V1, there would be little point in releasing an SDK for Flight Sim World. At the rate they are adding content and tweaking stuff, any SDK would be out of date before one had even downloaded it, because even DTG don't know for sure where it is going to wind up at this stage, which is after all, the point of them having made it early access, in that we ourselves can be involved in determining that. We are always banging on about what we want, well this is the chance to have our say on that. Or in other words, the reason there ain't no SDK is because it's in large part up to us to determine what will be in that SDK. DTG have asked us to help.

So at present, FSW is for me, as I'm sure it is for others, usually a nice weekly distraction from my more serious attempts at replicating a flight in other sims with more content, whereby I frequently check its updates out and occasionally offer suggestions or report bugs. Thus I don't hold too much store in Steam stats which may state that only ten people have fired it up today or whatever. It's not finished yet. The nice thing with that however, is almost every week DTG has given me an updated glimpse of what really can be done to move things on as far as more realistic flight simulation is concerned, and even in its present nebulous condition, with all the lessons and missions it has, I've already had more than my money's-worth out of it because those lessons and missions are good fun.

As far as getting TPDs on board is concerned, much of the oft-repeated notion of developers not being interested in making stuff for FSW, is born of the (untrue) idea that DTG are going to force developers to sell through their own outlet and take a cut. DTG have stated repeatedly that this is not going to be the case, but even if it were, why does anyone imagine all the developers who presently sell via that method on Steam for FSX are happy to do so? It's because they are making money from it. Moreover, if anyone imagines Lockheed Martin just cheerfully let developers make and sell add-ons for Prepar3d without LM getting some money, I can assure them this is not the case, so how is that any different from DTG getting a cut anyway?

Thus the notion that DTG is some kind of evil empire only interested in making money is frankly, rubbish. Yes they are a business and yes the point of a business is to make money, but if those behind DTG were only interested in making money, they could do so with a lot less hassle than going to the trouble of developing an entirely new simulator platform with genuinely innovative features. The fact that they are indeed developing that platform and in doing so providing a new sales outlet means they deserve to make some money out of it for having provided a new market for TPDs, just as those TPDs deserve to make some money for having created a new add-on aeroplane, new scenery or new utility. TPDs can't have it both ways, they can bang on about their costs and why stuff is this or that price, and fair enough if they did the work, I'll pay for it, but why should they not have to pay the piper too if they want to sell through Steam? It exposes them to a massive market with practically no other overheads. I don't expect the brokers who work with me to sell my training courses to do that for nothing and flight sim developers who can see the value of such a system will be smart enough to realise that as well in the case of their products.

So as far as saying that big name P3D/FSX jet developers won't be on board. Wanna bet? You just watch them change their tune, because if Flight Sim World ends up being a better sim platform, which it is already looking like it will be, they'll bloody well have to develop for it, or they'll be making stuff for the wrong simulator.

 

Well...I've just removed P3Dv4 from my system and reinstalling FSX-SE.  P3Dv4 is ok, but again, for me, it wasn't worth the $60 price tag, plus the other ~$100 for ASP/ASCA, FSUIPC5, etc.  I never had OOMs on my FSX-SE set-up anyways.  But, I wanted to try P3Dv4, but I just cannot justify the cost to get it to the same level as FSX-SE from an add-on perspective.  Additionally, I miss my C-162 Skycatcher and BN-2 Islander tbh.

Nevertheless, I like what I see with FSW and will continue with it and hopefully in the end, will be my everyday sim in the near future.

1 hour ago, Chock said:

So as far as saying that big name P3D/FSX jet developers won't be on board. Wanna bet? You just watch them change their tune, because if Flight Sim World ends up being a better sim platform, which it is already looking like it will be, they'll bloody well have to develop for it, or they'll be making stuff for the wrong simulator.

As with X-Plane, I personally don't lose sleep over the fact that the big P3D developers don't bother with the platform. At least with FSW, someone like PMDG or A2A would have a much easier time, since it's still ESP. at the end of the day. Going to X-Plane or AFS is a different story, and means those developers are basically behind everyone else since they have no experience on the platforms and basically have to start from scratch.

Of course they'll go where the users are, and I'm fairly confident it won't be long before we start seeing this happen. I can also imagine it's not very attractive for certain developers though because they can no longer charge "pro" prices anymore, and sadly that gravy-train will end for them

Gee, I woke up this morning and the radio alarm clock was playing "I Got You Babe"...

It doesn't matter to me what PMDG do. I've been simming for 15 years and still don't own a PMDG product. I just don't have the time or patience for a procedural sim by anyone these days, I can grab 1 or maybe 2 hours sim time and spending that with a checklist is just a waste of time and money to me.

I don't think I'm in the minority either.

Today's mainstream gamers are in exactly the same situation as me if not for exactly the same reasons. And FSW is going to be pitched at those mainstream gamers (37 million of them on Steam alone), not the "serious simmers" on this forum, whether they like it or not. There are missions, lessons, objectives and rewards built-in to FSW because the modern gamer expects them - games that don't have them are considered to be pointless, literally, and score very poorly in the ratings.

Someone has already mentioned that DTG may have missed the boat by not including VR compatibility, but it may well be in the pipeline, who knows? I expect FSW to be a cross-platform title in it's finished form, mainly for consoles, hand-held and VR devices. We can already see that it's being developed as a self-contained game with built-in features which don't require the myriad of add-ons which "serious simmers" have become used to. The 3rd party developers who do partner DTG in FSW could have their products included as default items, with their "Pro" or "Extreme" versions of the same products available as DLC add-ons for the "serious simmers" out there, and why not?

It's time to take a look at FSW as part of the mainstream games market, instead of whether or not "serious simmers" think FSW is a "serious sim".

2 hours ago, scotchegg said:

Personally, it's at a stage even in early access where I just have more fun with it and feel more potential in it than XP11. Really interested and excited to see what the next year holds and I haven't felt that about flight sims for a long time.

I'm the same. I'm not as excited with X-Plane 11 as I used to be, it's not going in a direction that I really care for, but I still think it's the best current nextgen sim we have. X-Plane seems gloomy, dark, and depressing and the weather representation is really not very good. As a another simmer once said to me, the X-Plane landscape looks like the Borg from Star Trek have assimilated Earth , and I completely agree with him. I'm warming up to AFS and DTG a lot, and I find them both more pleasant and interesting sims at the moment.

 

 

 

I honestly believe FSW user community will grow larger than that of any civil flight simulator in the next years, meaning, as Jordan has put it, that FSW will become the major goto civil sim.

I liked it, although I never re-installed it again, and will probably not do so, unless they come up with a revised and worth investing flight dynamics model.

But same applies after all to X-Plane 11. I liked it, I recognize it's potential, and the value of it's flight dynamics modelling, but I don't like it's development / support from LR... too unstable for my liking...

AEFS2 can't imo, even start to compete with either... another very interesting and promising offer, but that doesn't offer me what I need, and could actually find in FSX, P3D, FSW and X-Plane ( although I don't use them anymore... )

So, I do agree with Jordan, and I think it will happen irrespective of PMDG or any other major player stepping back on their initial opinions ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, HumptyDumpty said:

LM is an evil empire making money on a bollox sim , sorry i had to say it but this is MO , DTG has all the right to make money and with Trusky now that is progress.

I Hope PM3D don't come to FSW

HumptyDumpty (and SmokeDiddy to some extent), you truly are an word not allowed and naive person to say these kinds of things that you have posted in this thread.

 

I think you had a fundamental misunderstanding of why people use P3D over FSW. If you'll hear me out over the next couple of points maybe you will begin to understand and stop making yourself look like a horses' donkey.

1. P3D/FSX/FS9/FS2000/FS98 are CORE sims that provide a foundation upon which the FS Community has developed products for that go above and beyond the normal sim.

2. The reason why so many simmers in this community do not use FSW is because of the current lack of support of these third party products that customize the sim to each individual users desire.

     a) While some use their flight sim to fly low and slow GA, they may use more texture addons and GA aircraft.

     b) While some use their flight sim for "heavy" aircraft such as the PMDG 737/747/777 and like high altitude procedural flights, they will use more flight planning, weather and complex heavy aircraft addons.

     c) There are many other addons that both groups use; weather, textures, camera addons, TrackIR, joystick/yokes/flight panels/other peripherals, etc. etc.

 

Please, please, please just stop being an ignoramus and realize that as of right now, and looking to the future, FSW may not be the future sim for those in group 2 above.

 

IMHO, where DTG is going to go wrong is trying to replace the third party market with in-house development of licensed technology. They simply cannot take the place of an entire third-party market and hope to have FSW be as successful as FS9/FSX/P3D have been.

 

Again, one last time, we purchase and use FSX/P3D as the foundation of our simming experience and build upon it with additional purchased and free addons to suit it to our own individual needs. Not everyone wants a GA simulator with pretty clouds, but if you do, I'm happy that you are happy with what DTG is doing with FSW.

 

Can't we all just agree to disagree...?

1 hour ago, pmanhart said:

Again, one last time, we purchase and use FSX/P3D as the foundation of our simming experience and build upon it with additional purchased and free addons to suit it to our own individual needs. Not everyone wants a GA simulator with pretty clouds, but if you do, I'm happy that you are happy with what DTG is doing with FSW.

 

Can't we all just agree to disagree...?

+1

@pmanhart

No one wants to disagree , or cause disharmony but there are times it just happens.

"Oh Stewardess, more popcorn please....and some of that bitter orange juice in a can too please."